Dr Z

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO........ Owing to a work committment I cannot change, please REMOVE from this cruise.. Dr Z + 1 Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

I'm happy to be @ Woolies in Mt Annan @ 7:30am ... for those who don't know where that is, just PM me or I can post directions. The area is well suited as a meeting place, e.g., Shell (with Optimax), Fast Food outlets, e.g., Maccas, KFC, etc., etc., lots of parking space. So let me know who's planning to be there and we'll make sure we don't leave without you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OK, we will be there by 7:30am. Thanks Ken. Oh and go easy on me, I am a FordXR6Turbo.com cruise virgin! Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

Sounds like a great cruise. Add: Dr Z + 1 Also, what are the chances the folks in the Campbelltown area can meet up at Mount Annan for the drive to Berowra? Ken, would you like to organise a good meeting time and place since we will probably be travelling at your speed as you lead the Campbelltown Chapter. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

Great to hear you are happy QikSmurf...enjoy! As for sub 5s 0-100 and sub 13s 0-400 for the F6, in the manual transmission, perhaps it COULD happen with a perfect launch though extremely unlikely given that no one has done it yet. Even if someone does, as both Wheels and Motor have shown it is more likely to deliver REAL WORLD consistent times of 6/14 respectively, which as we know, is barely quicker than a stock XR6T. In short, the low-down torque delivery and gearing gives the "bumoter" feeling that the F6 is much quicker than an XR6T, but the straight-line performance reality tells a completely different story. When it came to a decision for me to part with $30,000+ trading up a 4 month old XR6T for a marginally quicker F6 or spend $6,000 on an APS Phase II for a sensationally quicker XR6T, I chose the APS. Got to tell you that blowing past a couple of Typhoons already, even at the lights, the longer duration APS "Whoosh factor" and the saved $24,000+ feels very sweet to me. Each to their own as long as everyone enjoys their driving. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

Dynowog, thanks for your contribution. Reading carefully through it, there appear to be no mistakes and there is no misinformation in the quoted passage as you originally claimed. Apart from some sarcasm and elaborating/updating, the quoted information from a layperson's point of view is largely accurate. It would be great if you could reference your updated information sources for anyone who wants to learn more. Finally, while we know what you mean by substituting oxygen for air, it is actually air that is pumped in rather than oxygen so presumably that was the author's original intention. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

Ha Ha, I get the joke now, the ice melted a little so the snowman's "carrot" nose slipped down a little..

Ken, does it really matter? You know you just want to buff the paint back to its original HgAg undercoat?

Lawsy, with the greatest respect, anyone checking your posting history will see that you keep taking unsubstantiated shots at piggybacks like Unichip. It is one thing to repeatedly parrot popularist opinion that PCM Edits are superior to piggybacks but I believe it is borderline slanderous to make this outrageous claim: I think I know what you mean by that statement, but perhaps you could have chosen some better words to make your point. May I gently remind you that amongst many other achievements the Unichip currently: * has the largest XR6T after-market tuning market share * holds the record for the fastest XR6T at 307km/hr * holds the record for the quickest XR6T on the 1/4 at 10.98s Peter from APS has made positive statements about the benefits of combining Unichip with APS Edit, so we are supposed to just ignore the claims of the most respected after-market tuners in Australia because of unsubstantiated popularist opinion in the APS sponsors area fired off by someone who is not a professional tuner? Think again. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

So sorry to hear Doc, though keep voicing your thoughts with everyone else. We can only hope that one day Ford/FPV listen when a critical mass of us is heard as one voice! Here is my contribution to the critical mass, which comes after viewing some real-life dyno figures APS have posted om their website here: APS Typhoon Information Congratulations Ford/FPV!...you have successfully achieved your objective of "dumbing down" the F6 so much that you may not lose an extra 3 GT/GT-P sales per month for the next financial year due to internal product cannibalisation! Darn shame you will lose more than 3 F6 sales per month because of how "dumbed down" the car is, not to mention the humiliation of being dropped out of Motor PCOTY due to clutch problems! Doc, looks like if you didn't go to APS for that upgrade, you might have needed to use those Ford-approved tissues they supply with every F6! Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

Geeseman, thanks for that. There are stock auto T's with higher maximum rwkW than this manual F6! The tractive effort is far worse than an APS modded T! :o As evidenced by other dyno charts, the Torque of an APS modded T starts higher, stays longer and would result in an even bigger real life "Whoosh factor" than the F6! Congratulations Ford/FPV!...you have successfully achieved your objective of "dumbing down" the F6 so much that you may not lose an extra 3 GT/GT-P sales per month for the next financial year due to internal product cannibalisation! Darn shame you will lose more than 3 F6 sales per month because of how "dumbed down" the car is, not to mention the humiliation of being dropped out of Motor PCOTY due to clutch problems!

No matter how Ford/FPV chooses to "spin" this story, depending on the amount of media involvement, the Ford/FPV street credibility-meter may rapidly fall, unless they act quickly and are seen to be acting quickly to address this, as well as other, Ford/FPV "she'll be right" fringe cost/engineering/performance tradeoff concerns. I agree with Redhawk's excellent insights, that this may be good for Ford/FPV long-term to get them off their backsides. On a personal short-term level, makes me even happier that I did not spend $30,000+ uptrading my 4 month old XR6T on a manual F6, but only spent $6,000 on that sizzling solid sweet APS Phase II. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

I completely agree with WhiteTee, a good edition for prospective APS customers. Speaking of APS customers with sub 12.8 for APS Phase II in auto on standard dunlops, has anyone seen Big Mick around recently? Anyone know where he is or what he is up to? Is he still going to the strip?

Listening to a few people here and there, it seems they have the impression that the 270kW maximum power figure for the F6 is understated like the GTR's in Japan, though it appears at best this is just wishful thinking. In reality, the F6 COULD have easily been setup for a higher maximum power figure, but wasn't. Why? Despite what Ford/FPV publicly claim, the F6 with an even higher maximum power figure, would likely have increased the cannibalisation of their rapidly declining V8 market share, in much the same way that the XR6T cannibalised market share from the XR8. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

Dr Z, You'll be waiting a long time, because the manual version will always be faster. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mr Walker, that is not the experience we have with the XR6T's in straight-line performance whether they are stock or modded and since the F6 is just a slightly modded XR6T in terms of performance capability, with what logical justification can we expect the F6 to turn the tables in a manual version?

Ken, is this how you like your blow up dolls?

Thanks for Birthday wishes...got new numberplates for birthday...WOO HOO! Happy Birthday voy, Miyagi and MISS XR!

Marshman, I have an APS Phase II and have provided feedback including a report after 3000km in this thread: Dr Z feels the need... While you may only be after an APS Phase I at this stage, after getting it you may consider even more power because the "Whoosh factor" is highly addictive. However, even if you just stick with the APS Phase I, reading this thread will give you some useful feedback. Of course, there are other aftermarket options than APS, though a clear advantage with APS is that they provide emissions data for your Engineering Certificate if you want the peace of mind of owning a quick, reliable, street legal car that will not have any legal or insurance concerns. I ought to add that after 5000km, I am even more impressed with my choice. PM me if you want some more information. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

Those figures appear to be quoted by Ford as Motor have yet to run their own performance tests.

According to Wheels in their November 2002 testing of the XR6T with the T5 manual transmission, and the car weighing 1732kg, the performance times were: 0-100km/hr: 6.0s 0-400m: 14.3s I still believe next year's Auto F6 will bring quicker times as does the Auto XR6T currently. Still, what appears to be perfectly clear irrespective of what times are achieved by who and where in the F6, is that the stock F6 has been relatively "dumbed down" in the same manner that the stock XR6T has, in order to "protect" the straight-line performance-deficient Ford/FPV V8 offerings. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

For those who think the F6 is quicker than any Ford or Expensive Daewoo V8, sorry to disappoint you but check the quoted LS2 Clubsport performance times: Quoting November 2004 Motor magazine on page 64, according to HSV: Manual: 0-100km/hr: 5.2s 0-400m : 13.5s Top speed: 270km/hr (gearing-limited) Auto: 0-100km/hr: 5.1s 0-400m : 13.3s Top speed: 274km/hr (drag-limited) Personally, if I do get an F6, I will wait for the hopefully quicker (hopefully by 0.3-0.5 s over quarter mile) Auto version late next year that might get close to these HSV times. In the meantime, the street legal sub 5 0-100km/hr, 12 seconds 1/4 mile APS Phase II XR6T will do me just fine. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

Turbo6man, thanks for your well-considered reply and it seems we are now collectively synthesising this more clearly. 1. To use a dyno to test for these differences, as you suggest, would be to measure a sample of the estimated power/torque levels at any given RPM, and yes we know the manual transmissions achieve higher maximum power, all other things being equal. 2. While there is some positive correlation between maximum rwkW power estimates from dynos and quarter mile times, we consistently see that the automatic transmission XR6T's (or example, see TurboDewd's collated spreadsheet) outperform the manual transmission XR6T's, to be fair, at least the T5 transmissions from the data collected to date. This is irrespective of whether the XR6T is stock, or has a "standard" modification package (although individually tuned) of an APS Phase I, II or III etc. Simply stated, the automatic transmission XR6T's outperform their manual transmission counterparts in acceleration performance times. 3. The observations we note from point 2, in theory, can be explained by the continuous versus discontinuous supply of gases in the absence of significantly different gearing ratios as in the automatic transmission the accelerator, being continuously depressed, continues to spool. 4. Noting the good point that driver input is a hugely important factor in the performance times capability of any vehicle, we cannot discount this as contributing to lowered performance times for a manual transmission. Relating this back to the F6, and keeping it on topic.. ..using comparisons of modified cars with similar or higher levels of Power/Torque it appears that the automatic transmissions play an increasingly important role in delivering real life performance times as we increase Power/Torque levels. If we observe this to be the case with higher powered/torqued XR6Ts, then it is not too much of a logic leap to state that the F6 would be expected to deliver better performance times in a capable automatic transmission than in the current 6 speed manual, given that the F6 is so closely linked to the XR6T. In short, manuals are great fun to drive, though they appear not to deliver the performance times of the automatic transmissions in higher powered/torqued XR6Ts, all other things being equal, and so we shape the expectation that the F6 may be quicker with a capable automatic transmission. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z. :tosser:

Turbo6man, what you write regarding transmissions we all know to be true, and thank you for your explanations, but my point is that we can not dismiss the fact that the torque delivery from a turbocharged vehicle comes directly from the gases supplied by the accelerator. We know with an automatic transmission that is a continuous supply, whereas with a manual transmission it is discontinunous. Thus, we cannot ignore that we are comparing a turbocharged car when making this transmission comparison. It is this part of the point that I hope someone could elaborate on to explain how a discontinuous supply of gases running through a turbocharged vehicle in a manual transmission can, in theory, all other things being equal, without any wacky gearing etc, lead to better acceleration performance times than a capable automatic transmission which delivers a continuous supply. Thanks in advance. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

As difficult as it is to be patient with exciting opportunities that may arise from new product releases, many questions like these will be answered after the technical and commercial aspects have been finalised when the product is formally launched.

Bring it on I say... Officer: Sir, did you know you were doing 270km/hr? Dr Z: No sir, my speedo only said 130.

The point we were talking about before you entered the debate was the speed of an auto or manual car and which is faster. the terms better, and superior are in refrence to the speed of the car with the transmission, not ones taste in transmission. They are all the same for the point I was making in refrence to yours. I don't wish to debate tastes on which someone prefers. I was referring to motor mags results and how they are different from track times. It was a question, Jeff. Before that JB made the point of autos lowering times. I only commented when you said manuals are faster. I still dont see any evidence for your claim that manuals are faster. Is there anyone out there with a manual T that has a fast time under 14s? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Um, yes there is. Even if we are talking factory, there has been a 13.8 run. At the end of the day Manuals seem to get better power, auto's are quicker. Manuals can handle more kw before requiring modifications, auto's cannot. Not detracting what alot of the auto guys have achieved but to also get a manual down the quarter requires much more skill which I myself am yet to master but it can be done. With a very good driver I believe a manual can be as quick but it takes alot more effort to achieve the same times. Just my 2c... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *wades into the fray* As I began reading "Auto v Manual" Part 69, it occurred to me I could go two ways: 1. Carefully explain the concept of turbocharging and how keeping the loud pedal on all the time in an Auto is far more likely to give quicker performance times than a Manual, at least in theory without wacky gearing exceptions, that is, all other things being equal. OR 2. Issue a challenge for someone to explain how, in theory, a Manual transmission, all other things being equal, is expected to have quicker performance times in a turbocharged car with the power/torque levels of F6 and other modified cars compared to a decent Auto transmission. Keep the Auto v Manual driver enjoyment debate out of this, just strictly link it to performance times, because IMHO, everything I know about turbocharging tells me that the F6 would have better performance times in a decently capable Auto transmission. I chose NOT to do number 1 because I did not want to risk insulting anyone's intelligence or subjecting them to stuff most people know, so that just leaves number 2. If anyone is up to that challenge, feel free to enlighten us. Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.