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Retarded timing


Frank Castle 85
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Na man, all new coils and sparks with precise gap and voltage. Checked that like a thousand times haha. It's when the oil gets hot, it thins out and stalls the engine, currently running 10-40 mineral oil to run in the engine. The exhaust phaser when warm, retards to neg 58.9. But if this oil test doesn't work, I'll do more digging into locking the cam. 

 

41 minutes ago, Puffwagon said:

You missed the point keefballs was making Frank. Putting cam gears in is not how you fix a cam timing issue.

 

 

Cos no one else in this thread has any idea about building or tuning barras right?!

 

Anyhow you do you mate, good luck.

I've done everything has said, checked off exactly what he has said, he has been a jet with other info. Even reverting to a basic map on the stock ECU and Haltech with minor adjustments. Hence why I reached out to this thread, to see if anyone had blocked off their phasers and what had happened - to see if it's a good or bad thing. I haven't heard many people doing it, so I thought, to jump on a proper forum and not the trolled Club FG page. I'm not accusing anyone of not knowing how to build an engine, I'm not the first and definitely not the last to ask as this is a rare thing to happen. Once this bloody engine has been has been sorted, I'll be sure to post up in here for the sake of others that may encounter this problem. I am thankful about hearing about locking cam. Would love to know more about it, the pros and the cons.

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5 minutes ago, Frank Castle 85 said:

when the oil gets hot, it thins out and stalls the engine

What is your oil pressure gauge saying when this happens?

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20 Bro. After speaking with a guy down in Melbs, he said the gap in the bearing, but when I explained this happened with the stock bottom end, just before the build, he suggested to run 20-50 and see what happens and likelihood the pump has failed. But yeah man, this is a proper headache. This phone call didn't happen until after the conversation on here was already started.

 

**EDIT** Just FYI, the oil pump has had Atomic gears in it for a while now. Buuuuut, the guy just north of Brisbane could've f**ked that too. Fingers crossed this is all it is.

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1 minute ago, Typhoon said:

It's when the oil gets hot, it thins out and stalls the engine

This was happening to me as well.

 

I managed to stop the stalling after I installed an oil cooler and went to a 20w-60 oil, but maintaining target cam angel was still problematic, so the cam angel was fixed.

 

Solved all my issues.

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Good luck with it all mate, hope you get there and solve the problem.

 

I run a B&M supercooler between my radiator and intercooler and just use my thermo fans to provide the cooling. Works ok, could be better. Was simple and easy for me to make fit etc so I just went for it.

 

1 hour ago, Puffwagon said:

You missed the point keefballs was making Frank. Putting cam gears in is not how you fix a cam timing issue.

Puff I think its clear in his posts even though he is not writing them well, that the cam timing is not the issue. We all know that if this out more then a few teeth the motor wont run and you may even encounter piston to valve clearance issues.

 

As I understand the post, they seem to be struggling with the variable cam timing advance and retard control of the inlet and exhaust cam phases.

 

If you lock the cams at   X   degree for both inlet and exhaust then the VCT control issues will no longer be there, and if this is the problem it will be solved.

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On 12/08/2021 at 11:58 AM, Typhoon said:

I do see he notes the issue was there on his stock motor too, which is not that uncommon, phasers can malfunction due to lack of oil changes and many other reasons to on a stock engine.

 

If the actual cam timing can not be controlled and all reasonable attempts have been made to fix it. Locking the cam timing will solve the problem. 
 

The problem wont be there any longer because the cam angle physically can not change due to the lock outs being in place.

I locked the timing and wallah, fixed the stalling issue. Car ran no problems at all... for a little bit haha just a little rattle now, I'll explain below, nothing major. 

 

I bought an NA head, which I'm going to build up instead of transferring from the turbo head. Going to buy a new set of Valve Springs and Turbo exhaust Valves, maybe cams but at this stage, happy to keep stock cams. Even though I made sure all the galleries were clear of debris in the OG head, I can't confirm if the gaps are correct or out. So, instead of wasting time, I'm doing what I mentioned above. I do have rattle from the top drivers side behind the timing cover, so at the moment, I'm assuming it's the Atomic timing chain tensioner. I got a stock one to replace it. Only happens between 2000-2500rpms in any gear. But yeah, won't know until I pull it all off lol. 

 

Again, thanks for the advice only locking the timing. Works a treat, only difference I notice was the sound of the car.

 

I appreciate everyone else's time into this matter, it gave me reassurance on everything; however, locking the timing worked best in this situation. Hopefully building this new head, I'll be timing issue free. 

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