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Hi all,

 

I’m new to the forum and have started up my bf atomic built Barra in a Te cortina. I have this on the dyno and I’m not real sure on ignition timing since my Backround mechanical knowledge is in the diesel field. Mods are listed below:

 

Atomic built 698kw engine

bosch 2200cc injectors 

twin Bosch 535 running E85

precision 76/75 

PWR W2A cooler

FG intake

custom exhaust manifold

turbosmart 60mm waste gate

turbosmart bov 

2 speed glide 4500 stall

3:5 9inch 

 

 

any help would be appreciated. Any tuning tips especially with timing. Thanks in advance.

Edited by RNUMUK
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No tuna, but I'd start around 8-10 and keep adding till it stops making power.

Be interested to see where you get to. Be surprised if it takes any more then 14 in the mid, and 17 up top


Again I'm not a tuna, just logging cars and talking to people.

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Thanks for the reply and info. Any other ideas/suggestions would be appreciated. 
 

I’m trying to have a base limit from responses to avoid maybe overcooking it and sound damage. First time dyno and petrol tuner.

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Thanks for the info gents, I haven’t given all the info as this is my first time posting.

 

tuning platform is an haltech elite 2500 and my tuning Backround is diesel and still fairly limited. I’ll post some pictures of the car

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The fact you’ve asked the question means you’re far away from realising this isn’t a question you can actually ask but a result you will generate. 
 

This will give you some idea you have loads of research in front of you before you even think about taking to the Dyno. Everyone starts somewhere and the way you’ve asked the question means you are really unaware vs someone who knows but is fishing for data ;) 

 

Google how to correctly set up timing scales/maps and hardware required to do so. The Haltech platform has a neat logger but don’t be fooled thinking it’s a Genuine Knock tuning tool but more of a tool to reduce timing on a knock event and threshold of limits more so

 

After 30 solid minutes of google you’ll know why but the BARRA is unique and the Haltech ESP software is only as good as you are so definitely engage with a tune shop whose willing to help you or even set it up for you first 

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Totally agree with trying to get help through a tune shop. I have my own dyno and would like to get this process done on my own.....even with paid help from a tune shop. Unfortunately it seems like it’s majic they’re not willing to give the secret to. 
 

I understand that you tune using the MBT method starting from a safe 10 degrees or less under boost. At the moment I am tuning to 26psi and have changed timing from 12 to 14 with no change at all with afr at 7 the whole way through the rev range which I think is bang on however no increase in power or torque. No knock since fuel is E85 but am assuming that it should be able to take more timing. So instead of possibly “sending Rodney to the moon” I’m trying to get some other examples of timing to ensure that is where my max timing advance is. It just seems low with E85. 

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If your not a tuner, hoe come you have your own dyno??

 

Tuners generally regard their work as IP, usually they dont share much as it will cost them in the long term.

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Try the PCMTEC or Haltech forums too. On The PCMTEC one at least, there are plenty of other pros, hobbyists and DIYers who are generous enough to give others advice as to whether or not you are in the ballpark or sometimes you even see people share their maps. Obviously you need to make sure whoever you are listening to knows their stuff.

If you read heaps and take a safety first, incremental approach to making changes you'll get there.

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Dyno is there for diesel tunes and upgrades. However never really take on petrol jobs due to lack of knowledge. Now that the cortina is done, I’m wanting to get my head around the haltech system and also the non diesel/boost tuning. I know this forum has a lot of experienced guys so assumed I’d be able to get some base info from.

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2 hours ago, RNUMUK said:
Totally agree with trying to get help through a tune shop. I have my own dyno and would like to get this process done on my own.....even with paid help from a tune shop. Unfortunately it seems like it’s majic they’re not willing to give the secret to. 
 
I understand that you tune using the MBT method starting from a safe 10 degrees or less under boost. At the moment I am tuning to 26psi and have changed timing from 12 to 14 with no change at all with afr at 7 the whole way through the rev range which I think is bang on however no increase in power or torque. No knock since fuel is E85 but am assuming that it should be able to take more timing. So instead of possibly “sending Rodney to the moon” I’m trying to get some other examples of timing to ensure that is where my max timing advance is. It just seems low with E85. 

Seams rich , assuming your at 0.7 lambda.

I would think you would be closer to 0.8 lambda

 

What type of torque numbers are you making, and what dyno?

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8 hours ago, gaz097 said:

Seams rich , assuming your at 0.7 lambda.

I would think you would be closer to 0.8 lambda

 

What type of torque numbers are you making, and what dyno?

7.4 should be my target lamda however power increase is not responding with timing and other adjustments so trying to keep it on the rich side for now. 
 

best power so far was 440kw with 1250nm of torque.......something here is not adding up. I’m assuming either the torque or power reading is incorrect. When I started to wind boost in the dyno actually started to lift at the rear showing the torque numbers are actually up there. I’m going to try and get the car on another dyno (preferably a hub) and see what happens. If it’s roller slip it will be obvious. 
 

dyno is a mainline 2wd600L 

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Thanks for all your advice and info. I have started to make some progress with tuning, still struggling to regulate boost as I'm running a 4 port solenoid which I'll be changing to a 3 port to simplify things. The best so far is 620hp - 820nm at 21psi. Once the boost is sorted I can then get some more boost in her(29psi max) and fine tune the fuel map. Hoping to see over 800hp. Will keep you posted. 

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Nice work so far.

 

How's your boost holding. flat to redline, dropping off?

 

Where did you start losing power with spark? There's a point it will rollover but wont knock on E85. Anywhere between 13-17*. Just interested to compare a built motor to a stock one :)

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Great build ... not a fan of the water/air intercooler from past experience....looks to small for one !!! This was my setup from 10yr ago on a rotary....AAE58-A84-BB6-F-42-AE-A12-E-0-F73-A23-CE

 

I also had an ice box but only was efficient for drag racing ....I found soon as your engine temp climbes so does your air temps = danger ...

But with E85 it maybe more efficient than 10yr ago with no e85 about good luck with your tune 

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The problem you were experiencing is quite common with rotaries.........your engine was down on 6 pistons :) 

 

On 13/05/2020 at 11:12 AM, finnas said:

Nice work so far.

 

How's your boost holding. flat to redline, dropping off?

 

Where did you start losing power with spark? There's a point it will rollover but wont knock on E85. Anywhere between 13-17*. Just interested to compare a built motor to a stock one :)

I have just managed to get the boost control to regulate at 21psi through the rev range, coming on at 2700 and holding.......4 port has been quite tricky. from 16-18degrees it increased by 40kw which is an indication it could take more timing - can't quite remember torque without pulling the screen up. At this point it was making 620 hp and 850nm. Just need to now work on upping and holding boost at 28psi to continue to tune. 

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What springs have you got in the wastegate?

I would personally keep the 4 port solenoid as changing to a 3 port is a downgrade. I run a 4 port and can get perfect control from my 15 psi spring pressure to what ever I could want without a problem.

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