T56 Shift Mods

[IH8TOADS]

$200 US for the WOT BOX. Takes some practice and I don't have it activated anymore as much clutch hates it now. If you so much as rest your foot on the clutch at WOT you will put your head through the windscreen as its a proper hard cut.

[barnz]

Never said I was an expert. Just that everything needed to explain how you get a manual gearbox to WOT-shift was explained already, hence being so blunt. Either accept it or do your own research and prove us wrong. Keeping on asking the same questions and getting the same answer is helping nobody.

Ring gears or just "rings". Please clarify.

That's correct. As mentioned earlier, dog-engagement gears are not necessary for WOT-shifting, but certainly do help to keep the gearbox in working order.

The gearbox in stock form has nothing "special" about it. Shifting at WOT with the stock gearbox CAN be done, but you're just asking for trouble (destruction)

Either the shifting needs switches (mentioned above) to help it spark-cut to both disengage the current gear and to help it engage in the next gear.

This is required at bare minimum. Haltech is just a means to spark-cut via switching.

LOL ok...

It makes sense, I thought the end result would be a dog style engagement but its not and I was hung up on how that's possible with syncros. The reality is the shaft speeds still need to be matched which I felt you were saying they dont but maybe you werent? It seems that the t56 and perhaps other boxes can do this very quickly. Quicker than the triton anywho lol..

Will the gear stick take off?

Barnz, the synchro is designed to brake the driven element to match speed. Removing the engine load reduces the requirement to brake and if the duration of the spark cut is the same/slightly longer than the time it takes for the synchro to align BEFORE the braking portion of it function occurs it's possible to shift without a clutch

Not point discussing dog/straight cut gears as a dog clutch is designed to shift under load (basically has larger "windows" of alignment hence can be forced through under load) and a straight cut gear can also be using in synchronised applications

the simple fact is cut spark slightly before and during and after the shift to given the synchro time to align and engage and you can shift without reducing throttle input/engine RPM and thus retaining boost on the shift.

"Under Load" probably isn't the best way to describe it, also im not suggesting it will do wonder for the longevity of the box but it is doable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qcnW6qbyI0

Cheers for the explanation mate, toads vid actually helped alot as well. Made the end result alot clearer, I was thinking something like the way the PPG T56 shifts and thinking how is that possible with some clever software and a shifter... Edited 09/12/15 04:12 AM by barnz

[k31th]

It makes sense, I thought the end result would be a dog style engagement but its not and I was hung up on how that's possible with syncros. The reality is the shaft speeds still need to be matched which I felt you were saying they dont but maybe you werent? It seems that the t56 and perhaps other boxes can do this very quickly. Quicker than the triton anywho lol..

Well, if the shaft speeds were forced to be at different speeds, then the synchro is going to have a hard time (re: be destroyed) in the process of attempting to synchronise the speeds of the two different shafts. I was just saying that reducing the load (re: spark cut) will certainly help the 'mesh to synchronize the speeds of the shafts and they will match VERY quickly.

With Dog-style engagement this shaft speed matching will be almost instantaneous, but will be "rougher" on the driveline/shifter etc. (but way more fun )

[barnz]

Yeah were on the same page now, I was hung up on one thing which was stopping me from understanding. The shaft in a dog pretty much is spun up instantaneously but virtue of just be grabbed. Like I said brutal and its amazing they survive given the power levels they are exposed to normally. Must be made of some serious sh*te. Also I never clutchless shifted my VX, its only in the last couple of years since my knee has been farked that ive learnt to do it as some days I do alot of k's in traffic and it really starts to hurt. I can also tell you both the ranger and the triton I have driven that way both took atleast a full second for things to line up and slot in no matter how hard you force it. Obviously the tremacs are alot better.

See arent guys heaps better and dealing with sh*t fluff, he says I dont understand I say hes a pelican and its all good. Im happy to be called a peanut on the way to learning something.

Good thread errybody, most technical discussion we've had in a while I think.

[k31th]

pelican > peanut, it seems...

[HI PSI]

WOW!!! Thanks for all of the replies. I was expecting a few, but not this many....

I understand that the factory T56 was not designed to be used in the way that I am intending. Mal Wood, has suggested that the input shaft will be the weak point in the box and has expressed concern about the power levels that I will be running. Albeit, before I concocted this idea....

From what I am led to believe, the biggest downfall with the synchro box (Besides strength (compared to straight cut)), is the increased total time required for the rev cut. I think, that the minimal amount of time for the rev cut will alleviate of the strain (shock load) on the gear set and this should be helpful for longevity. As stated earlier. this is and always will be a street car and maintaining driveability and street manner are a must. Besides, it's not like the car will be flat shifting continuously for the remainder of its life.

All in all, I think that the concept has merit and I intent to pursue it further when I manage to free up some funds.

[barnz]

As cool as it would be a dog(im sick of that word..) style box would get old pretty fast in a daily. So this concept is probably as close as you will get. Will also be cool to see how quick it is vs a similar setup with an auto. Not that there are many setups like yours to compare.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Check out that Video I posted, the Red mustang is Jay from Real Street Performance. Once it leave the lines shifts sounds like an Auto, I think it would be most quick if you don't exploderise it

[barnz]

that's sick, another good explanation as well. Makes me want to sell the zf and go manual. Missus may no be so happy.

So with the way its setup in that vid is it just business as usual if your not WOT shifting? Can you somehow bring accelrator pedal position into play so it does pull spark when your driving like miss daisy?

[Ralph Wiggum]

Yeah, set it up based on load etc. The WOT BOX allows you to set the Pedal Position Sensor voltage that the unit starts working at.