Edited T's Losing Tunes

[JP300]

Sounds like the tune is out ... I drove my car for a year and put it back on the dyno and it read 1kw more at the wheels.

11 sec on pump fuel and street (factory dunlops) tyres is doable !! ... I did it.

[gogo]

Luke,

This is actually not so simple - there are a number of things that can cause this to occur:

1) a mechanical problem can result in the loss of power - some of the main culprits have been mentioned: Cat failure, failure of the waste gate actuator (will not hold boost), sensor failure, degridation in fuel pump performance etc.

2) What Simon mentioned is new to me, but might well explain why the PCM is adapting - this might require a tweak of the tune to get right

3) long term knock sensors can take out timing which will drop power - I think factory setting allows 8 degs - this is heaps and will significantly impact power levels, but can be adjusted as part of the tune - then it is a case of making sure the right balance is struck between safety and consistancy.

There are plenty of indications that there is a fair bit going on in the PCM in terms of torque management that the tuners have no access to with current software. This makes any guarantee of consistant performance slightly more difficult as there are occasionally things going that not completely clear due to the fact that the edit only provides access to elements of the PCM's functionality. There are plenty of tuners who have been experiencing drops in power outputs with time - most I would suggest. Some cars appear fine - others seem to suffer more - this might simply be fuel related (or wear and tear which has been the case for me when I have lost power) - or it might be something more.

One comment that suprised me was that you are out of injectors and you are running Nizpro drilled units. I would have expected these to support way more than 290rwkw. Worth checking fuel pump/fuel system, and the injector slope and settings in the tune...

Good luck mate!

cheers,

Ben.

[Flukey]

Luke,

This is actually not so simple - there are a number of things that can cause this to occur:

1) a mechanical problem can result in the loss of power - some of the main culprits have been mentioned: Cat failure, failure of the waste gate actuator (will not hold boost), sensor failure, degridation in fuel pump performance etc.

2) What Simon mentioned is new to me, but might well explain why the PCM is adapting - this might require a tweak of the tune to get right

3) long term knock sensors can take out timing which will drop power - I think factory setting allows 8 degs - this is heaps and will significantly impact power levels, but can be adjusted as part of the tune - then it is a case of making sure the right balance is struck between safety and  consistancy.

There are plenty of indications that there is a fair bit going on in the PCM in terms of torque management that the tuners have no access to with current software.  This makes any guarantee of consistant performance slightly more difficult as there are occasionally things going that not completely clear due to the fact that the edit only provides access to elements of the PCM's functionality.  There are plenty of tuners who have been experiencing drops in power outputs with time - most I would suggest.  Some cars appear fine - others seem to suffer more - this might simply be fuel related (or wear and tear which has been the case for me when I have lost power) - or it might be something more.

One comment that suprised me was that you are out of injectors and you are running Nizpro drilled units.  I would have expected these to support way more than 290rwkw.  Worth checking fuel pump/fuel system, and the injector slope and settings in the tune...

Good luck mate!

cheers, 

Ben.

←

My injectors are the early dual-orifice Ben, not quad. HPF flow tested them and found they were maxxed.

[RAPHOON]

Luke,

This is actually not so simple - there are a number of things that can cause this to occur:

1) a mechanical problem can result in the loss of power - some of the main culprits have been mentioned: Cat failure, failure of the waste gate actuator (will not hold boost), sensor failure, degridation in fuel pump performance etc.

2) What Simon mentioned is new to me, but might well explain why the PCM is adapting - this might require a tweak of the tune to get right

3) long term knock sensors can take out timing which will drop power - I think factory setting allows 8 degs - this is heaps and will significantly impact power levels, but can be adjusted as part of the tune - then it is a case of making sure the right balance is struck between safety and  consistancy.

There are plenty of indications that there is a fair bit going on in the PCM in terms of torque management that the tuners have no access to with current software.  This makes any guarantee of consistant performance slightly more difficult as there are occasionally things going that not completely clear due to the fact that the edit only provides access to elements of the PCM's functionality.  There are plenty of tuners who have been experiencing drops in power outputs with time - most I would suggest.  Some cars appear fine - others seem to suffer more - this might simply be fuel related (or wear and tear which has been the case for me when I have lost power) - or it might be something more.

One comment that suprised me was that you are out of injectors and you are running Nizpro drilled units.  I would have expected these to support way more than 290rwkw.  Worth checking fuel pump/fuel system, and the injector slope and settings in the tune...

Good luck mate!

cheers, 

Ben.

←

My injectors are the early dual-orifice Ben, not quad. HPF flow tested them and found they were maxxed.

←

The software will adapt over time.

Have you tried to reflash?

[Flukey]

Luke,

This is actually not so simple - there are a number of things that can cause this to occur:

1) a mechanical problem can result in the loss of power - some of the main culprits have been mentioned: Cat failure, failure of the waste gate actuator (will not hold boost), sensor failure, degridation in fuel pump performance etc.

2) What Simon mentioned is new to me, but might well explain why the PCM is adapting - this might require a tweak of the tune to get right

3) long term knock sensors can take out timing which will drop power - I think factory setting allows 8 degs - this is heaps and will significantly impact power levels, but can be adjusted as part of the tune - then it is a case of making sure the right balance is struck between safety and  consistancy.

There are plenty of indications that there is a fair bit going on in the PCM in terms of torque management that the tuners have no access to with current software.  This makes any guarantee of consistant performance slightly more difficult as there are occasionally things going that not completely clear due to the fact that the edit only provides access to elements of the PCM's functionality.  There are plenty of tuners who have been experiencing drops in power outputs with time - most I would suggest.  Some cars appear fine - others seem to suffer more - this might simply be fuel related (or wear and tear which has been the case for me when I have lost power) - or it might be something more.

One comment that suprised me was that you are out of injectors and you are running Nizpro drilled units.  I would have expected these to support way more than 290rwkw.  Worth checking fuel pump/fuel system, and the injector slope and settings in the tune...

Good luck mate!

cheers, 

Ben.

←

My injectors are the early dual-orifice Ben, not quad. HPF flow tested them and found they were maxxed.

←

The software will adapt over time.

Have you tried to reflash?

←

Yep. No change.

[RAPHOON]

I would expect some kind of mechanical issue if a reflach does not re-intstate previous power levels.

[F6 UTE]

Loose hoses??

Pressurize the system from the air filter with a regulator at 20psi.

[gogo]

Luke,

I guess the first part of the diagnosis is can the problem be fixed by a re-tunr - if yes problem would seem to be tune related. If no then it is hardware related - this happened to me a couple of times....

I spoke with Robin earlier about your injectors, and he beleives he was making around 360rwkw with the original twin orifice drilled items... If this is true then it may well be injector setting that are the problem...

good luck!

cheers,

Ben.

[Flukey]

Luke,

I guess the first part of the diagnosis is can the problem be fixed by a re-tunr - if yes problem would seem to be tune related.  If no then it is hardware related - this happened to me a couple of times....

I spoke with Robin earlier about your injectors, and he beleives he was making around 360rwkw with the original twin orifice drilled items...  If this is true then it may well be injector setting that are the problem...

good luck!

cheers, 

Ben.

←

Thanks Ben for your input and call today. I will get it sorted, as I want my 11.

[Guest]

This isnt really possible. Ill try and explain some things here as best I can and believe me.. im hopeless at trying to clarify things.

Firsty the best thing about editting the factory PCM is you are in control of the pcm...Now if you had a car with injectors fitted and it wasnt tuned correctly then yes the tune would change... you only have to be out on the injector settings a little for the car to start to change its tune over time.

It really isnt possiible for the car to loose its tune if its tuned right in the first place. Ive had cars do 30000 kms and put them back on the dyno and be pretty much well the exact same power.

If like I said you where to be out on fuel curves and injector sizing by more then 10 percent (that isnt much) so your pcm's trimmings had to try and work outside there capabilities then yes its going to chop cna dchange over the duration more kms are done.

does that make sence.. sorry if it doesnt.

←

not to disprove your theory but wtf?

once the scalars are set their set!

the adaptive off where's the change come from?

and you saying hpf can't scale injectors don't think so!!!!