Katrina Aftermath...a Different Perspective

[Mr Turbo]

Damm that's the longest post ive seen

Rob...

[Lumpen]

Lumpy:

I disagree that "Basic Animal Instincts" are to rape steal and kill.

Altruisim is an effective survival strategy that has evolved in mankind AND OTHER ANIMALS. Vampire bats will regurgitate blood to a neibour bat in thier cave that did not get a feed that night. Why? to maintain a population in that cave / treestump, so that if in future if the donor bat misses out on a feed there are enough others to donate to it. It's the same with Humans (metaphorically of course!) I pay taxes to go into welfare to support people who one day, may have to support me (or  my offspring)

Altruisim is an evolutionary tactic that is innate to all humans while theft, killing and to a lesser degree, rape (let's not get into that topic here...)are LEARNED "skills"

I do not agree that rape / murder / theft is the inevitable result of putting humans under stress.

It's the result of evil fcuks running amok because that think they can get away with it.

Theres no excuse for thier behavior.

That is a very good point you make.

However, I would also like to say that you could say that theft and murder in this context could be an animal instinct. I also agree that does not excuse it.

First of all, I think that the theft that has been going on is merely a instinct to gather and hoarde food and supplies for what could be a period of instabilty and uncertainty. Also, make a distinction between the theft of what is being needed to survive, items such as clothes, food, water and between material goods such as electronics etc. The people who are stealing these have been conned by the materialistic nature of the society they live in and perhaps, in their eyes the see that these goods tht were left behind which belonged to people who have 'abandoned them' can almost be like trophies

The murder in this situation is similar to that in any other part of the animal world when there is a group of stronger more powerful animals occupying an area wishing to excercise their strength and therefore their ability to control resources.

Rape, on the other hand is abbhorrent and like you say, anyone who claims to have been pressured into such an action is a liar and a coward.

It is an interesting point you bring up about altruism.In Australia, though it is fading, we are brought up in a relatively Altruistic, though no longer egalitarian system, however the majority of the folk left behind were Negro's from the deep south of the US. For years subjected to horrible crimes and racisim and subjugated as inferior.Perhaps if they were themselves brought up in an Altruistic and Egalitarian society the 'outcome' may have been different?

Lumpy

[sixfan]

Lumpy:

I disagree that "Basic Animal Instincts" are to rape steal and kill.

Altruisim is an effective survival strategy that has evolved in mankind AND OTHER ANIMALS. Vampire bats will regurgitate blood to a neibour bat in thier cave that did not get a feed that night. Why? to maintain a population in that cave / treestump, so that if in future if the donor bat misses out on a feed there are enough others to donate to it. It's the same with Humans (metaphorically of course!) I pay taxes to go into welfare to support people who one day, may have to support me (or  my offspring)

Altruisim is an evolutionary tactic that is innate to all humans while theft, killing and to a lesser degree, rape (let's not get into that topic here...)are LEARNED "skills"

I do not agree that rape / murder / theft is the inevitable result of putting humans under stress.

It's the result of evil fcuks running amok because that think they can get away with it.

Theres no excuse for thier behavior.

That is a very good point you make.

However, I would also like to say that you could say that theft and murder in this context could be an animal instinct. I also agree that does not excuse it.

First of all, I think that the theft that has been going on is merely a instinct to gather and hoarde food and supplies for what could be a period of instabilty and uncertainty. Also, make a distinction between the theft of what is being needed to survive, items such as clothes, food, water and between material goods such as electronics etc. The people who are stealing these have been conned by the materialistic nature of the society they live in and perhaps, in their eyes the see that these goods tht were left behind which belonged to people who have 'abandoned them' can almost be like trophies

The murder in this situation is similar to that in any other part of the animal world when there is a group of stronger more powerful animals occupying an area wishing to excercise their strength and therefore their ability to control resources.

Rape, on the other hand is abbhorrent and like you say, anyone who claims to have been pressured into such an action is a liar and a coward.

It is an interesting point you bring up about altruism.In Australia, though it is fading, we are brought up in a relatively Altruistic, though no longer egalitarian system, however the majority of the folk left behind were Negro's from the deep south of the US. For years subjected to horrible crimes and racisim and subjugated as inferior.Perhaps if they were themselves brought up in an Altruistic and Egalitarian society the 'outcome' may have been different?

Lumpy

Hmm...

It's a form of pejudice to assume that because they're black / subjugated / maltreated that they are going to act in a socially less desirable manner.

However there's a hell of a lot of grey between the black and the white in this situation...

I can refute my own arguments as I type them, a sure sign that there's truth on either side of the fence, which is where I think I'll sit for now......

[Lumpen]

Hmm...

It's a form of pejudice to assume that because they're black / subjugated / maltreated that they are going to act in a socially less desirable manner.

However there's a hell of a lot of grey between the black and the white in this situation...

I can refute my own arguments as I type them, a sure sign that there's truth on either side of the fence, which is where I think I'll sit for now......

It wasn't MEANT a predjudicial statement, though I can see how it is, yes.

Perhaps an elaboration?

The people who are running riot, according to many of the (biased) report's we see, hear and read, including this one all seem to indicate that it is generally negro people who have been 'running rampant'. Perhaps because the majority of people left are the poor or what now appears to be released prisoners!

Now, for the most part, in the United States, the Negro people as a group have been subjugated officially through law and unofficially through resentment for many years, nowhere was/is this more prevelant than in the 'Confederate South'.

What has happened recently is that this major natural disaster has befallen the region and in response a majority of people were evacuated and more to the point a majority of the Anglo people have been evacuated. So now there is a city devoid of control and lawfulness with a majority of oppressed people residing there.

It stands to reason that without 'policing' and with very little hope of imminent salvation not to mention a feeling of abandonment and isolation that people will seek, through spite, malice, greed or a million other reasons to strike back at the system that has been oppressing them for so very long.

It is nothing more, in my mind, than a case of the oppressed becoming thr oppressors. We see it everywhere in all walks of life, perhaps what we fear more than anything is the brutality of the situation in New Orleans?

Yes, I also agree that there are many sides of the fence and it's bloody hard to pick one and look at the other side and not agree with what is happening there as well!

Cheers,

Brendan

[sixfan]

I don't think it's a case of the peoples revolt, fighting the system, looks more to me a case of revolting people fighting each other.

edit: Doh Please don't take this seriously....

[Lumpen]

LOL Truth be told I reckon you're alot closer to the mark than me!

Lumpy

[F6 UTE]

Let's see how long it takes for an 'Oprah' special view on our screens..

[Venom XR6]

Let's see how long it takes for an 'Oprah' special view on our screens..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny you mention that as there was a picture in yesterdays paper of Oprah visiting the area with cameras in tow. Celebrity vultures will do anything for ratings.

[Redhawk]

Ahh, stimulating debate and comment, love it. Also some of the longest posts I've seen too!

Just finished a long e-mail with my friend in L.A. (who sent me the article originally), wish I had read these posts first.......... much more eloquent than mine, but along the same lines as Brendan's.

The other issue that arises from this is the blatant profiteering that we are seeing now, especially with the proce of oil shooting up the second news comes out about the damage the oil pumping infrastructure has recieved, at the same time the oil companies profits are at an all time high.

I suppose the only silver lining in this cloud (aftermath of Katrina) is that jobs will be created by the rebuilding of the area, although you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to know who will reap the most financial benefit from the rebuilding, yeah it won't be the $8.00 per hour labourer, costs bourne by the tax payer. So how does the US government fund the rebuilding, simple cut back on health, education, social programs of all sorts, so when the employment boom is over these poor saps can go back to a welfare system that is even more run down.

Then because the boom is coming to an end the CEO's and leaders of these huge corporations start seeing the profit margine slipping thus the share price start to fall so they lay off more workers and get the old bottom line looking healthy again then they are justified in giving themseves a hearty pat on the back and a substantial bonus and a few more thousand shares into their already obscene salary packages...........yay Capitalism, works for the priviledged few!!!

For the rest.........'keep 'em scared and keep 'em consuming.'

................"and I say to myself what a wonderful world..........ohhh....yeah!!!

[plonky]

I have received a number of emails from friends of mine in Lousiana and Texas. There was plenty of warning and even though they lost everything they still saved their lives.

I agree that the response was poor but I do believe that those that remained behind, that didn't leave or are running riot have to take some repsponsibility for their actions.

I think the responsibility needs to be shared...by those running the country and those that chose to live there!