Diff

[JB]

Thanks Mondie for the advice, good to hear from you.

Unfortunately I cannot afford to get rid of the car, otherwise I would.  I do however really want to finish this project, and enjoy my T completed with all the mods I wanted to do. As I am so far down the path now and can see the end, I am now looking at this as a challenge, to get it completed.

I want to enjoy all the work and time I have put into it, and more importantly get over the hurdle of a 12 sec manual T.

Ford are willing to help, but I really cannot rely on them fixing the problem. I need to get it fixed asap rather than keep going down the path I have.

It’s been over 12 months now, and I am fed up with dropping my car off at the dealers. If it proves to be expensive however, I will have to keep going down Ford’s path. It’s just interesting to see that with the few days of work I have put into this problem, I have found out more than Ford or Dana ever have in relation to my problem.

Unfortunately in my situation the adage of drop a new one in and she’ll be right just does not fit.

Thanks for the contact details, I will call them next week, and keep you all posted

JB, Mine has the drive line clunk and did have the diff whine, but on the 4th replacement diff the whine seems to be gone, but the drive line shunt is still very evident. Mines going in this week to Ford again to try again to rectify the problem, but Im not getting my hopes up... Which on Ford’s part is VERY sad, cause when we are spending our hard dollars on a NEW car, it should drive better the a freakin bobcat!!

Actually its strange cause even with this ongoing problem, I still love the XR!!! I compare it to a chick that annoys the crap out of you, but ya just cant help but keep on going back for that sweet lovin!!!!

Cheers Luke

Could'nt have put it better myself Luke!

Mine is awful to drive in traffic, particularly at low speeds, I cannot describe how bad it is, bunny hop your car down the road and you are where I am currently at.

Where are you located Luke?

[xlnt6]

Hi JB,

I am assuming yours is a manual ? Have Ford looked at other causes of the "clunkiness". I know mine has a slight clunk, but it doesn't appear to be as bad as the problem you describe. All manuals that I have seen have this "problem" or "feature".

One of the major sources of "cluckiness" in the OEM driveline is the factory flywheel, as it is not a standard solid flywheel. It is a compound flywheel which is constructed of several rivetted plates joined together, much like a sandwich. This was done to provide some extra give in the driveline and prevent breakages under extreme conditions (ie. dropping the clutch, etc). This design adds a lot of backlash like behaviour, and results in a clunking sound in the diff. So you may think the problem is diff related whereas the source of the driveline spring is the flywheel. The problem is made worse if the clutch engagement is hard (ie in/out with little intermediate progression). So if you give it some RPM and slip the clutch, or ease it in, the pre-tension in the flywheel is all taken up and no diff clunk is evident. Banging the clutch, will result in a really audiable "clunk".

The only way to get rid of the above problem is with a standard style solid flywheel. Which is a good option when an upgraded clutch is fitted. Ofcourse your problem could be something different again (ie tailshaft unis, etc). Have Ford given you any indication that they have done a through check of the result of the driveline. After 4 diff changes, you'd think that they may start wondering if they are looking in the right place ???

Cheers

Robin.

[Mondie]

Thanks for the contact details, I will call them next week, and keep you all posted

JB, when l spoke to Paul he recommended that we put my car on his chassis dyno and perform a series of tests to determine excatly where the shunt was coming from. He would then either have to souce parts through Mal Wood or if he could determine that some component that was out of spec, have me try and get Ford to replace it under warranty. From memory he was going to charge about $70/hr and thought the initial diagnosis would take a bout 3 hrs. Since you have put so much into your car and intend keeping it, that's probably money well spent.

Cheers

[WBT56]

.....One of the major sources of "cluckiness" in the OEM driveline is the factory flywheel, as it is not a standard solid flywheel. It is a compound flywheel which is constructed of several rivetted plates joined together, much like a sandwich. This was done to provide some extra give in the driveline and prevent breakages under extreme conditions (ie. dropping the clutch, etc). This design adds a lot of backlash like behaviour, and results in a clunking sound in the diff. So you may think the problem is diff related whereas the source of the driveline spring is the flywheel. The problem is made worse if the clutch engagement is hard (ie in/out with little intermediate progression). So if you give it some RPM and slip the clutch, or ease it in,  the pre-tension in the flywheel is all taken up and no diff clunk is evident. Banging the clutch, will result in a really audiable "clunk".....

Robin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have got to say that this is absolute rubbish. The ford flywheel is really just a flex plate with a cast iron running surface on it. Although poor quality, prone to warping, and giving a tttzzz noise as the starter engages, it will not give the symptoms you describe, as there is no backlash or give in it. It is not a "mass dampening" type wheel. It is an auto flexplate with the cast iron BOLTED to it using the converter bolts. The flywheel bolts go through both parts into the crank. Ben.

[xlnt6]

WBT56,

What you say is mostly probably true, as you are in the business, and I am not. All I know is that I have seen two of the OEM flywheels on the bench, and both of them had give between the clutch mounting bolts and the crank bolts. Both of these were "abused" examples, so this may not be the norm. Hence the only source was the flywheel ? So if I'm mistaken, so be it.

After all the intention of my post, was to ask if JB had prompted Ford to check the rest of the driveline, as clunk may not only be attributed to the diff.

Robin.

[WBT56]

WBT56,

What you say is mostly probably true, as you are in the business, and I am not. All I know is that I have seen two of the OEM flywheels on the bench, and both of them had give between the clutch mounting bolts and the crank bolts. Both of these were "abused" examples, so this may not be the norm. Hence the only source was the flywheel ? So if I'm mistaken, so be it.

After all the intention of my post, was to ask if JB had prompted Ford to check the rest of the driveline, as clunk may not only be attributed to the diff.

Robin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No problem Robin, and no offence intended. JB can confirm that I have listed EVERY POSSIBLE cause of backlash from the crank to the rubber. I just find it necessary to jump onto clearly incorrect information in the interests of clarity. As what you have described is not possible, perhaps the flywheels shown to you were not factory turbo flywheels? I have seen some abused ones also, blued right through to the back and warped 60thou. Ben.

[JB]

Well thanks to Ben from Mal Woods and all his input and suggestions. Considering he was unable to see the car he described it's behaviour to a T.(excuse the pun )

However after alot of research by myself as well as talking to various people in the industry, some seeing the car and driving it telling me Ben was correct, it turns out at this stage the problem is...................

THE PCM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone who has driven the car said it's driveline related, however after collating all this information, I tried one of Ben's suggestions.

When driving it and it starts shunting back and forth on the driveline, shut the car down in gear and see what happens.

Car turned off the driveline was smooth as a baby's bum.

Took it to the dealers, this time letting the Service manager come for a drive, he was the only other person who said it's the PCM, where the rest of his people said driveline, so all along I have been lead down the wrong path by people who don't know what they are on about even though they drove the car. hence my diff replacements may have not been neccessary except for the whine.

Turns out with the PCM upgrade has thrown out all the settings of the car, combined with my chip bigger injectors everything is staring to make sense, with the higher fuel consumption and always stalling.

Thanks to Ben's input, even though at the end of the day it's not the driveline his ability and knowledge and talking me through it gave the ability to work through the car to eliminate certain components. It's amazing that being so far away in QLD he had more of a clue than guys who were infront of the car and drove it.

Phoenix is booked in for Dyno time on Wed where the new exhuast will also go on. I am just hoping that what now seems the obvious cause is exactly that.

I'll keep you posted.

[tab]

Of course. If there is a computer involved it will usually be the weakest link.

So what’s going to happen with it JB, although the dealers may now know the cause can they fix it?

Trent.

[JB]

Of course.  If there is a computer involved it will usually be the weakest link.

So what’s going to happen with it JB, although the dealers may now know the cause can they fix it?

Trent.

Trent, I am sick of dealing with Ford and the car goes in for a dyno on Wed.

If that does not work then some form of EDIT will go in as that will no doubt fix it, but I am pretty confident that it can be overcome, as it is becoming more and more obvious to me how the car is behaving that it's fuel and air ratios etc, fuel consumption is I get the odd backfire now and then, and its definately overfueling.

I relation to the clunking etc, that has been a component of the driveline coping with the surging and may not go away completely, but I have no doubt be no worse than any other T going around.

As I have been told by many in the industry, the clunking is just a trait of this car, and to me a representation of the poor quality that Ford settle for.

On a positive not the gearbox is beautiful, and the clutch is getting better with age, I still will put it in for a check next week as I do not want to damage anything longterm.

I have no doubt that I will have everything sorted in the next week and will continue to thoroughly enjoy my T with all the problems solved.

[tab]

I have no doubt that I will have everything sorted in the next week and will continue to thoroughly enjoy my T with all the problems solved.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Big thumbs-up to you buddy.

I'm not sure how you can always manage to spin a positive light on these dramas, but best of luck in any case. It is a real shame when you think about how an otherwise good car could be great if it weren't for these significant shortcuts.

I often ponder at the fact that Mitsubishi are offering 10 year warranties (I think that's what it is) on drivelines, but Ford with its macho status and all are purely playing band-aids just to barely get their vehicles through the 3 year 100k warranty – and even then it’s more a case of “the textbook says that’s within spec, so shut the I <3 Bananas up and stop your winging”.

Scotty and bandwagon will be along shortly to bag “bits-and-pieces”, but faark I would love to see Ford have that much faith in their product.

Trent.