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powelmac

Manual Ute Traction

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Having traction issues with my lowered manual F6 ute. Tyres are still 245/35r19, when it wasn't lowered I had better traction as the rear could squat, however now its 50mm lowered with reset herrod leaf springs and an anti-tramp leaf on the top I just can't get traction in 2nd even only on the 98 tune with 327rwkw and new tyres. Does the stiff rear end reduce traction significantly? Might be worth checking out a wider rim/tyre I'm guessing

Also broke the water pump pulley last night after being humiliated by a BMWs1000rr :ermm:

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One variable you've taken out of the mix with the lowering has been arresting shock.   If you hit a bump in the road now you have reduced the time & distance you have to work with arresting that energy, therefore you get a firmer or rougher ride.

 

Similarly you are trying to rapidly load the tyre and with the way geometry & physics work, you are loading that axle.  Without some of the distance & flex you originally had, the tyre will still only handle so much torque but you are getting to the friction limit of the rubber really quick.   You don't reduce the traction so much as make it difficult to feel when you are coming up on that limit.  Once you've smashed through the limit of friction to the road it becomes a loosing struggle.  Basically if you can get your head around friction, adding more tyre grip will only offer so much.  See static & kinetic friction here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction#Static_friction

Also think about a top fueler, they have no rear suspension and they bring on way more power quicker than you can dream of.  But the tyres go through all sorts of crazy deformation.  Have a look at the video below about bike frame stiffness, semi relatable?  

 

Hope if haven't confused anything for you.   In answer to your question, yes a wider stickier tyre may help with more overall grip. However if you think of that graph of friction you potentially still break traction and still loose heaps of grip very quickly.  I would lift it and make it a little nicer ride, but that's just me.

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Stickier tyres will fix it. As wide as possible helps. If it tramps then get some caltracs or mal woods anti tramp kit.

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Thanks @FiftyOne that's some good insight, I guess it's looks vs performance. Im going to try a set of wider rears and see if that works first then I guess I'll need to revise the suspension height if that fails.

@camo86TI tried new revalved bilsteins, and different bushes etc which did nothing, half leaf got rid of it 100%, can accelerate and dump the clutch now and just spins compared to a trampoline like motion previously 

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go buy some decent tyres, or go get some 18x10s with fat sticky tyres. no bob jane specials. :P

 

end of the day its a ute with 1950's rear end dont expect it to be all that great.

 

whats this half leaf wizardry? pics? 

Edited by Ford Freak

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Yep coil springs were used in cars since 1906. Ford obviously just loved the horse and buggy.

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If you want to be specific to how old, half of the bushes for the utes rear end are XT parts. Farking old.

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yer they havent spent a cent on the rear end. really dissapointing. but they always saw the ford ute to be a workhorse to carry a load, where h.olden see the ss ute as a 2 door sports car hahah. 

Edited by Ford Freak

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On 4/20/2018 at 12:36 PM, Ford Freak said:

end of the day its a ute with 1950's rear end dont expect it to be all that great.


What he said.   Interestingly, the weight distrubution of my ute vs a BF sedan is within 10-20kg on the back axle.  (I've got a sport bar, tub, hard lid, wing & towbar) 

The old saying "she's a little light in the back" simply isn't correct

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So I went and bought 18x10's all round with 265/35r18 Front and 285/35r18 semi slicks on the rear, which helped a little but still spins like crazy in 2nd. After that I went to suspension city and had the 2nd bottom leaf taken out to soften the spring and raised 10mm (now 30mm from bumpstop) which helped a little bit more but still spins easily in 2nd when planted (you can roll into nicely but this is only on lowest possible boost making 326rwkw). Aware that under acceleration the axle touches the bumpstop slightly I actually took them off to see if it allowed the spring to compress more but actually reduced grip so I slapped them back on. It's annoying because the car isn't dumped by any means (340mm hub to guard front & 350mm hub to guard rear) and I see others with the same if not more low managing to hook with upwards of 400rwkw

Some photos of the car:

http://s261.photobucket.com/user/macadaca/library/FG F6 Ute?sort=3&page=1

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dude ....utes and grip dont go together

 

ive had no grip since stock, make 450+++ now. its all useless kw on the street.

 

unless you want to street some 15's or 17s in a mickey thompson semi slick learn to live with it.

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@powelmac last week I got Allsprings to mod my leaf springs similar to yours with the reverse leaf, also had them reverse wrap the front eye (more camber for same height) and reset height back to around 345-350mm (theoretically)

Planning to fit them this weekend and see how I go, do you think it's the reverse leaf making it too stiff? Obviously it fixed your tramp dramas so that may be the trade-off but sh*t I hope not

Assume you still have std FG turbo? ie. gt3576

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It definitely does stiffen the spring a fair bit, it’s worth a shot but wil defs stop your tramp. How many leafs in your pack? I’m still on std 3582, have plans to send it to Procharge later in the year

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it's all about weight transfer, there is nothing wrong with leaf springs, and there is a lot of development put into them. Gazzard Brothers in Toowoomba are the leaf spring kings, mono linear rate springs, with traction rods are the go, along with a bound and rebound adjustable rear shocks. A good set of 90/10 (fast extension, slow compression) bound and rebound adjustable front shocks will prevent the tyres from unloading too quickly (break out into wheel spin would be the result)..

 

I wouldnt be too concerned about tyre width if you dont have any sidewall. I changed from a 285/30r18 federal 595 rs-r which would wheel spin at 200kph (with 600rwhp), to a 275/40r18 SS 595 and picked up a heap more traction, all due to 1" extra side wall (and it's quite a hard tyre compound)

 

pic courtesy of Gazzard Brothers built rear end BA Pursuit ute 

27459069_1859908917377337_22379868704217

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It's fact though, either the chassis twists of wheels raise of the road.

And being a falcon the chassis will probably twist.

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