Upgraded Brakes

[Paradoxx]

Doesnt it make sense to fit the brakes BEFORE you make it go fast?

[aiboart]

OK ladies, here is my $00.035 worth.

Up until not too long ago I would have said bigger brakes will not stop you any quicker for a single stop from "Normal" speeds, BUT, things have changed.

as you may or may not know, I have aute, heavy little things, they are, I decided to up the brakes with a set of DBA 4000 series gold slotted and cross drilled rotors all round and bendix ultimate pads to boot.

the above set up is Night and day ahead of the crap factory tstuff, how Ford can sell a car with the performance these thing have with the brakes the fit is beyond me, al law suit waiting to happen.

I recently went for a ride in my mate BF Phoon, STOCK auto, 18's, dunnys, brembos (not the big ones).

WOW, is all I can say, the inital bite and hold is unbeleivable, I thought my ute was good, but these pupiies are inreadable, remeber he has the crapp ole sp9000, I am running Goodyear eagle fi jobs, which are a much better tyre, bearing in mind his car is lighter, but it stops Soo much better, and sooner then mine, time after time, mine is good for 6-10 hrd stops, then its all over, his just keeps going.

to sumarize, the theory or tyres being the weak spot in a "normal speed" brake stop is true to point, but the grab the big brakes have, it will bring in the ABS well before mine, which means it is stopping harder and faster, bring heat into it and the game is over.

BIG brakes are a must, I am going to fit some biguns once I finish making it go fast

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IF you can lock your wheels….. in your application (your top speed, your frequency of braking, your tyres etc) fitting bigger brakes will not pull the car up in a shorter distance.

However... increasing the power of the brakes may (depending on the brakes) greatly reduce the effort required to activate ABS. As alluded to in the previous posts, the greatly reduced braking effort it may, just may, enable you to activate ABS earlier. There is after all a difference between theoretical maximum performance and sheer drivability. There is a similarity in the arguement with the fact that carmakers recognized a while ago that normal road drivers brake too gently in the early stages of critical braking situations. Consequently, some new braking systems are fitted with systems to detect emergency braking conditions and boost braking power to the full ABS modulated limit.

Now for the fun.

Once you have the optimum brakes for your car, that is optimum for your application so that the brakes lockup whenever you need and with an effort that you can easily apply, adding larger (heavier) brakes can increase the stopping distance of your car. This is because of the increased mass of the brakes. On bumpy ground, the effect is even more pronounced as heavier brakes increase the unsprung mass of the car.

Regards,

aa

Edited 13/10/06 06:18 AM by aiboart

[TURBO4LT]

Heres another point from Ford Engineering

Area of science: Engineering

ID: 959965680.Eg Message:

Brakes do not stop cars--not directly. That is why they are called wheel

brakes. The wheel brakes stop the wheel. Tires stop the car. Antilock

brake systems (ABS) stop cars faster (most of the time) because they

prevent wheel locking. A locked wheel typically has a lower tire-road

friction than when rolling with some slippage.

Tire-road friction normally reaches a maximum when the slip rate is around

20%. The reason for this slippage is that the tire is elastic, and must

deform to transmit the tire-road tread force to the wheel. When the tire-

road friction is greatest, this deformation (rolling 'slip') is about 4

centimeters (1.6 inches) for a typical passenger car tire on a good road

surface.

Present antilock brake systems do not optimize the tire-road friction.

However, they do prevent wheel locking. This does two things; it permits

vehicle steering control (very important) and usually increases the tire-

road friction, compared with locked-wheel braking.

If you want to stop a car in the shortest possible distance, you first

should apply the brakes very rapidly. The rotating components of a car,

mostly the wheel-tire assemblies, provide about 5 percent of the vehicle's

kinetic energy. Rapidly braking the wheels helps reduce this energy and

also starts the tire tread deformation needed to maximize tire-road

forces. Since the wheels are directly bolted to the brake drum or disc,

almost any torque can be used. More is better in this operation.

When the tires reach maximum tire-road friction, you then should reduce

the brake pedal force to maintain maximum friction. Experienced

performance test drivers can do this surprisingly well. Some use the tire

sound to help indicate the degree of slippage.

Now you have enough knowledge to answer your own question. Brakes that

are large enough to just lock the wheels (but no more) will complete a

stop as fast as larger brakes. However, larger brakes may reduce the time

to initiate braking of the tires. Since this is at the beginning of

braking (when the vehicle is moving fast), a small savings of time can

shorten stopping distance by a significance amount.

[Iconic Bionic]

The application of ABS is too much brake pressure being applied. ABS should noy be used to stop a vehicle, unless the driver passes the threshold braking point and this safety mechanisim activates. ABS does not stop you in a short distance than not using ABS. ABS in fact increases braking retardation, then not using ABS at the braking threshold point, which is difficult to obtain under stressful braking situations.

[JBomb3000]

which is difficult to obtain under stressful braking situations.

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Isn't that excatly why they fit ABS in the first place

[tab]

which is difficult to obtain under stressful braking situations.

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Isn't that excatly why they fit ABS in the first place

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Took alot of getting used to with my first ABS equiped vehicle, but I'm not to precious to admit that if I need to stop in a hurry the brake pedal gets full downforce applied. Who cares what a professional race driver would be doing in the same situation.

[bugster70]

Took alot of getting used to with my first ABS equiped vehicle, but I'm not to precious to admit that if I need to stop in a hurry the brake pedal gets full downforce applied. Who cares what a professional race driver would be doing in the same situation.

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No probs here with stomping on the pedal when needed - I just want the bloody car to stop, and fast!!

[Ralph Wiggum]

Sooo can we all agree that bigger feet help you stop quicker....

[Lumpen]

Took alot of getting used to with my first ABS equiped vehicle, but I'm not to precious to admit that if I need to stop in a hurry the brake pedal gets full downforce applied. Who cares what a professional race driver would be doing in the same situation.

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No probs here with stomping on the pedal when needed - I just want the bloody car to stop, and fast!!

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Only time I ever used ABS was in Dad's Sprint and christ was I thankful for it! Bloody Kangaroo on Dusk! I am no where near skilled enough to bring a car to a stop quicker than what ABS can.

Lumpy

[tab]

Sooo can we all agree that bigger feet help you stop quicker....

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Nope.

The alloy pedal covers on the BF don't agree with size 15 dress shoes Takes a few seconds to get the f*ckers untangled first