Upgraded Brakes

[Ralph Wiggum]

Another way to do a comparison, where the AP's would stop the car faster is if both cars had slicks, the AP equiped car WOULD stop quicker as there is more traction due tot he tyres, not the brakes.

←

Now im confused because your saying in that statement that two cars with the same tires but one with stock brakes and one with AP brakes, The AP equipped car would stop faster? So same tires different brakes the car with the bigger brakes stops quicker? That goes against that point you have been arguing? Or does it just read wrong? Once again not trying to argue just discuss im not about to call anybody a twit with out technical resources to back it up...

[bugster70]

Speed also comes into this, stock brakes will not activate ABS at 200km/h, no matter how hard you jump on them. Larger brakes may very well activate ABS at these speeds.

←

Yes, this is implied in the Brembo quote and also in my previous posts. Speed and repetivity are the major factors.

I think where a lot of people with bigger brakes might be getting confused is in the different pedal feel a better system will offer. The brakes will 'feel' a lot stronger, probably biting earlier and quicker and requiring much less pedal pressure for the same braking power. The pedal will also feel 'firmer', especially if braided lines have been fitted as part of the upgrade. I imagine that, for the SAME PEDAL PRESSURE APPLIED, a better brake package probably WILL stop the car quicker than the stock setup - but all the stocker has to do is apply more pressure. Factors like these may lead people to believe that their bigger brakes will pull their car up quicker?

[Paradoxx]

If it were stock brakes they would have faded and I reckon I would have been doing at least 60 and had little to no steering ability.

Do yourselves (and anyone else in your car) a favour and get some premos

←

I will highly doubt that our stock brakes would fade from a single stop between 100-40

that is laughable!

←

I wasnt laughing when they faded every time I braked

[bugster70]

Now im confused because your saying in that statement that two cars with the same tires but one with stock brakes and one with AP brakes, The AP equipped car would stop faster? So same tires different brakes the car with the bigger brakes stops quicker? That goes against that point you have been arguing? Or does it just read wrong? Once again not trying to argue just discuss im not about to call anybody a twit with out technical resources to back it up...

←

I think that what Zap was saying is that in most cases, at normal speeds, the limiting factor is the tyres ie. different brakes won't matter 'cos it's the tyre's grip on the road that is what we're relying on.

But if you take that factor out, say by putting on whopping great big slicks, then it's the brakes that become the limiting factor. Stock brakes simply would not have the power to lock up big slicks, whereas much bigger brakes might. Does that make sense?

[Ralph Wiggum]

Now im confused because your saying in that statement that two cars with the same tires but one with stock brakes and one with AP brakes, The AP equipped car would stop faster? So same tires different brakes the car with the bigger brakes stops quicker? That goes against that point you have been arguing? Or does it just read wrong? Once again not trying to argue just discuss im not about to call anybody a twit with out technical resources to back it up...

←

I think that what Zap was saying is that in most cases, at normal speeds, the limiting factor is the tyres ie. different brakes won't matter 'cos it's the tyre's grip on the road that is what we're relying on.

But if you take that factor out, say by putting on whopping great big slicks, then it's the brakes that become the limiting factor. Stock brakes simply would not have the power to lock up big slicks, whereas much bigger brakes might. Does that make sense?

←

Yes it makes sense in saying that tires and traction being equal that bigger brakes will work better..? Having enough power to lock tires isnt the issue because once your tires are locked up you stop braking. Being able to apply maximum braking power and modulate it to maintain traction is the issue?

[Paradoxx]

so if the tyres are at there limit and one car has the ability to convert the kinetic energy at a faster rate than the other why wouldnt this shorten the stopping distance? You obviously cannot apply any more braking force without breaking traction but your still converting that energy to heat. Bigger discs and pads =more suface area to convert heat = energy dissapated in a shorter time?

←

No matter how well your barkes can absorb heat and cycle that enery through, your tyres are only able to maintain that transfer of energy at their maximum friction coeffecient, tyres are the limiting factor not brakes!

←

So really I should just get some really grippy tyres and some dihatsu sirion brakes for my car to save money

When you drive with standard brakes one day and have noticible fade from speed (single stop) and premium brakes the next day at the same speed and notice NO fade at all and definitely shorter stopping distance, are you still saying the premium brakes dont help me??

[bugster70]

Yes it makes sense in saying that tires and traction being equal that bigger brakes will work better..?   Having enough power to lock tires isnt the issue because once your tires are locked up you stop braking. Being able to apply maximum braking power and modulate it to maintain traction is the issue?

←

Well, yes and no. In most cases where tyres and traction are equal, the stock brakes are more than powerful enough to lock up the wheels, therefore the brakes aren't the issue, the tyres are. Most road going tyres don't have enough grip to be able to stop stock brakes locking them up.

But what Zap was saying is if you get super sticky tyres with HEAPS of traction, then brakes become more of an issue. If you can find tyres that are sticky enough and offer enough traction to be able to prevent stock brakes locking them up, then bigger brakes WILL stop the car quicker. But you are most unlikely to find tyres that sticky that are suitable for use on the street.

[bugster70]

So really I should just get some really grippy tyres and some dihatsu sirion brakes for my car to save money   

When you drive with standard brakes one day and have noticible fade from speed (single stop) and premium brakes the next day at the same speed and notice NO fade at all and definitely shorter stopping distance, are you still saying the premium brakes dont help me??

←

In your scenario the tyres are likely to outperform the brakes.

But seriously, for most people, buying better tyres will improve braking much more than better brakes. No point putting good brakes on Wanli-shod cars. For you to notice fade from one stop, I'd say you must have been something rather illegal! We have already said that speed IS a factor in better brakes, but you really do need to be going quite fast to reach a point where the stock brakes won't be able to activate the ABS.

Do it ten times, however, and you can fully expect the bigger brakes to pull the car up quicker.

[veczar]

Thanks guys. Very informative read!

[ZAP]

People are now just trying to find ways around the physics of brakes.

When you introduce variables, the results can become clouded, but the fact remains that bigger brakes will not stop you faster*

*(conditions apply)

After I put the Advan v103 tyres, on my car I noticed a massive braking improvement, this is because the tyres are heaps more sticky than the crap SP9000's.