mickq

Sharp XV-Z90E or 91E. Put it up against the Infocus projectors, and you will find it TOTALLY KILLS THEM. Bought mine for $4k about 18 months ago. Prob a fair bit less now. They may have replaced them with a newer model...worth checking it out if they have as the Z90's were outstanding. Has to be seen to be believed. A mate of mine saw mine playing on my plain cream coloured wall (not a proper screen) at home and the first words out of his mouth were "Sh1t, I bought the wrong projector". He had just bought an infocus one. No matter which you buy, be sure to check it out properly. Make sure you cant see any of the rainbow flashes. If you can and quite often, dont buy that one as it WILL drive you insane after a while. Seeing one every few mins is ok, but any more and you will start to focus on it and wont like it. Be sure to ask them about the screen they are playing it on. When mine was first seen in the shop it "happened" to be playing on an $8000 screen, not something I am likely to use! If its for home theatre use, be sure to buy one that uses DLP not LCD. They are superior for HT use except in the case of black background (where LCD tend to be a little blacker).

They are an awesome car, but the new software and the impact it has on the car is very disappointing. Im on my second XR6T and because of thsi software issue (and that issue alone) I will seriously consider a nice 6 litre SS or similar as my next car. With Expensive Daewoo upping the game by throwing 297kW on the table, and with the SS due to get power near that in October this year, I will find it very hard to choose a 3rd XR6T especially as it appears they will be wussy compared to what they were. Pick up your game Ford. Its not too late to fix this problem. It is doing serious harm to your reputation - a reputation hard earned by the BA series cars.

Fantasitc to read that. Now its out in the open. I note fords careful wording. I would like to know: What do they define as "normal operation"? Has power been altered by any other mods the software has implemented, other than boost? (Ie intake, exhaust timing etc)? THeir wording is way too specific. I work for a big company, and I know careful avoidance of the truth and lying by omission when I see it.

The quickest way is to get a hammer. Belt the sides of the seats a few times. If they explode, and costs thousands to fix, then you have side airbags fitted... But seriously, the tag should be there. I note from the photo that there IS a sticker on the side of the door, warning about the airbags fitted. Take it to a different Ford service place (not one connected to where you bought it) and tell them you are concerned about safety and if they can tell you if they are fitted or not. They should be able to tell you in seconds. The airbags also have wires connecting them to other parts of the car so they are triggered when they should be. The reason I say take it to a different dealer is that its theoretically possible a dodgy person at a delaer could swap your airbag seats with non-airbag seats in a different car (like a mates car), hoping you wouldnt notice. The sticker on the door indicated to me that the factory thought that airbags were fitted. It could also be a factory stuffup but I doubt it in this case. Either way, do not accept anything except written confirmation they are indeed fitted. If they arent, book you car in and demand new seats with airbags fitted straight away. (Should be able to be ordered, delivered and fitted in a day I imagine). Dont compromise your safety to get a little refund from the factory. Side airbags are a good idea.

sh*t if an edit gets you sub-5 seconds, that's awesome.

that's right - I knew it was one or the other. Funny as piss! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Subaru Australia have also sent reps with cameras to 1/4 mile days and club days in Victoria (at least). They have noted down the regos of the WRX's there and taken photos, and then declined warrantee on them for engine/driveline/suspension issues saying they have been raced. Was in the papers a couple of years ago.

I disagree with what you wrote about yellow. Yellow light has certain characteristics that make it one of the last wavelengths to be filtered out by water. Using a yellow light in fog (which is made of tiny water droplets) means you can see further and it is viewable from further away. One of the worst you can use is red, as red is filtered out very quickly. Sure you can use white, but the result is that after varying distances different frequencies are filtered out..leaving you with yellow as the last remaining colour that's visible. Ask anyone who scuba dives about how quickly red disappears (you cant see it at all below a few metres, it turns a greyish colour). Yellow however is still yellow to at least 60m. (I havent been deeper than that). Yellow is there for a reason, and its because it works best in foggy conditions.

Sh1t, that's a pity. Hope all goes well.

Interesting. There isnt a single person who has been in my Mk2 (and Mk1) who hasnt immediately commented on the noise difference. I reckon there is a big change in the exhaust, for sure. At least in my one there is. Its way too noticeable to just be only slightly different - much more than just your normal manufacturing variation. Under load my car is loud, and cackles/pops when you back off! (Mk Mk1 did too but wasnt as loud). Watch out for 6th! I nudged into a garage yesterday as was a few inches from it, went to reverse, put it in 6th instead, and when is started to move, moved forward and hit the garage door! Minor scraped areas of the paint which is seriously annoying but very small. (1c coin size near the numberplate). I am finding that double-clutching with the new gearbox is excellent. Very good indeed. Macthing revs seems much easier. Another thing - when the new 6spd is cold, its a bit grumpy. Likes to warm up a bit before getting smooth into the gears. Even when its notchy though, its still very solid. Im used to motorbike gearboxes that solidly clunk into gear, and dont have an issue with that so long as the box can handle the power. Do you have a slight rattle-type noise coming from the gearbox when you are in 1st or 2nd (or probably others too) accelerating between 1000-1400rpm?

Quite possibly. The info below is informational only. Completely up to you if you read it or follow it. Risks are attached! One thing I would consider if I were in your shoes is to undo the big pipe coming out of the front of the turbo (it then reaches up on top of the engine - this is where the compressed air is pumped out of the turbo and up to the engine.) Once you undo that, the car should drive - the difference being it wont have the turbo to boost power. You will effectively be driving a rough naturally aspirated XR6. I have done this for several hundred kms when it blew off in the middle of nowhere and I had nothing to put it back on again. Put the pipe in the boot and drove home. (My parents couldnt believe that I emerged from under the bonnet with something so big, stuck it in the boot, and said "lets go"!). When you first start the car, have the bonnet raised. Be ready to kill it if there is any problem or evil noise. An example might be terrible noise from the turbo or engine (grating or similar) indicating you nuked the innards of the turbo or something got sucked into the engine. If the turbo/engine doesnt make such noise, you will hear and see the turbine blades spooling up from the front of the turbo. Dont put your hands anywhere down there either! Hopefully the engine will idle, albeit a little weirdly as the system tried to cope with no turbo and different intake pressures. The car will occasionally run rough and idle weirdly, but the 2nd time I took that pipe off the car ran just fine, about 95% normal. Power was still good but not as good as normal. If all seems ok, drive it around a bit. Turn the car off and restart it a few times over that period. Note that while you are doign this the engine is breathing in unfiltered air. Best done when the roads are wet as there is little crap in the air. But normal dry not dusty days are ok short term. (You probably only need to drive 20 mins). The reason I wrote all that? By using the car, you will re-write many of the registers in the ECU, getting rid of the current values. This may not necessarily apply to peak turbo boost (depends how they organise their memory - record highest reading in last x amount of time, or highest reading since last reset at service depot). But it will maximise your chances. Again, note that if you get any hard mechanical noises (not to be confused with the car not idling properly, and the increased suction noise from an open air intake) then stop everything and get the car towed.

No, they're illegal in all other states I believe Panda <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In Vic they are legal in "inclement weather". If it is raining a little, or any other bad weather or maybe even poor visibility, you have got yourself a reasonable argument as to why they are on. If they are set up right, they are no worse than normal headlights (in fact better for oncoming cars as they are lower)so I dont know why people get so excited by them. The silly thing is, you could mount a second set of headlights 6" below the normal set, leave them on, and they wouldnt be classified as foglights so you would be ok... Its one of those silly laws...

It could very well be the 18's. When I took a mkII 6speed for a test drive, I was managing a chirp from 1st gear take off and changing into 2nd gear with TC on.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, true. I havent done any wicked mountain driving yet to really see how the limits vary going corner to corner hard. But I think you are right in that the added grip from the 18's means slight spinning isnt so common. Chirping in 1st under acceleration is unheard of unless the road is bumpy. I did some crazy fast runs on a corner of the Yarra Blvd the other night to explore front and rear end grip limits a little, and pushed it damn hard on some long constant radius sweepers until the front just started to get very light and then ran wide. I think the speeds seemed higher than I would have been able to do on the 17's. The 18's also just feel more planted as well. The car was very easy to hold right on the limit, and responded extremely well. The same thing in an SS would have caused you to come to grief from the front end losing it from cornering forces AND the rear end losing it under acceleration. 4 wheel slides at very high speed can get scary in some cars. Not so much in the T though. Today I drove to work in the first proper rain since I got the Mk2. Definitely has better grip in the wet, although I need to factor in the tyres are different from the SP3000's (They are the 9000's), the fact the tyres are near new, and the fact they are bigger tyres with what looks like a better wet weather tread pattern. Hard to say which helps the most - no doubt all make a difference. There were more instances where I could accelerate in 1st and 2nd with full or near full throttle, and the tyres just stuck. They also recover slightly faster when they do lose it. The other night I also got a mate to do some runs past me standing on the roadside, with it floored. Boy does it sound different from my Mk1! The exhaust note is definitely tougher. It still crackles and pops when you back off high in the rev range. Sounds just awesome under load in 1st and 2nd. Throaty. Tough and high tech. The turbo spool up sound is so different I would have thought there was a different turbo in there. Much deeper pitch. Something has changed on that front for sure, as with the exhaust system. Will report again on gearbox after I reach 400-odd kms.

In reply... 1: Any car with traction control can still spin. Its simple physics. It doesnt matter how good your TC and tyres are, if they are aquaplaning or way over their limits of adhesion, you will have zero grip. Ive spun several TC cars 360 degrees at only 15kmh due to road conditions. TC can make efforts to *try* to restore things faster by not making the matter worse and attempting to take steps likely to reinstate grip, but that is all it can do. But there is a BIG difference between TC not working in a tiny subset of circumstances and TC being completely disengaged at all times after a certain event occurs. 2: Not necessarily. Its not very practical for someone sharing their car often as Im sure many here do. The Edit is supposed to be very driveable and was often marketed as being an improvement on the standard driveability, not just in terms of peak power output. Losing TC is a serious issue, no matter how you look at it, and at a minimum a warning should be issued with all Edits stating that TC may disengage under certain circumstances. Its common sense. 3: Buyer beware has nothing to do with this scenario. Where a product is marketed and that product has a large impact on the potential danger faced by the user of that product, and where such a danger is not easily foreseeable, then it is a big problem. As you can see from this forum and thread, many edit users had no idea of this pitfall. It is the removal of an important safety feature of the car. It is not a case of buyer beware. If the Edit had disabled the airbags, would you still consider this to be reasonable and a case of buyer beware? Of course not. TC is no different - a safety feature was removed. Worse still the presence of this feature means people drive differently, and removing it means their usually ok driving may be dangerous as instead of TC kicking in, their car unexpectedly kicks out! 4: You chose to upgrade power and spinning tyres is a reasonably forseeable outcome. DISABLING TC IS NOT. It wouldnt matter if power was increased by the edit or not, if the edit removes TC is has shut down a safety feature. The lack of this safety feature can be the main contributing cause of an accident that would otherwise not have occurred if TC had been enabled. I think you need to face facts: SCT made an error in how their software versions cope with the limits of TC. The result is TC turning off. This is unacceptable, and I bet you anything they would agree. If you see a free fix coming out (or very cheap one) you will know this is true. SCT is a US company, and no doubt well aware of the massive risks posed by litigation where it may be construed their negligence in designing this product placed unknowing customers at unreasonable risk. Killing TC well and truly falls into that area. I have no doubt they will invest the time in fixing this one. Its no minor matter by any means - neither here or in the US. Winning a lawsuit based on this one would be very easy. Quite simply the customers had the reasonable expectation that TC would be functioning unless told otherwise. At no time was information provided that would lead a person to reasonably conclude that TC may be turned off. You seem to be confusing the issue here - the problem isnt that excess power causes you to lose it - the problem is that TC being unknowingly turned off (regardless of why) is placing the drivers at a very much increased risk. You dont need a hotted up car to lose it with TC turned off. So, if you own an edit, did you ask if your airbags will still work? Did you ask if your TC would still work? What about ABS and seat belt pre-tensioners? Just about every feature of the car has input from the ECU, and quite simply it is not reasonable to expect the customer to have to ask detailed technical questions about a product marketed as producing a slight power improvement. SCT will fix it, or else the first example of this software fault killing somoene will likely cost them and CAPA millions.

I know I would very much like to know that info too. For example, will my new T be flashed with non-run-in software when I hand it over for its 3k check? Same with other scheduled services. I would also love to have info on the actual way of fixing the problems. For example if they drop boost in the mid range, add more torque limiting tags etc etc. I have definitely noticed changes in my car - not for the better - after having Ford upload some supposedly better software version to address problems I dont even have...

I dont have any problem with what you have been writing. Your car clearly kicks ass, you are proud of it, and proud of the guys who helped you get there. Nothing wrong with that. I think your posts have tended to be a fair mix of pushing the technology and pushing the people who fascilitated the technology for you. Now take me for a run to the local shops in your car some time will ya!

There are likely a number of reasons for that...one of them being the $5 or so profit they get selling the edit box by itself at $1297..... (Ie its only worth their while selling it if they package it with a tune) Not trying to knock them...its clear from this forum they do some great work. But I have heard info on the wholesale price of the edit, and its clearly not worth selling without a tune - unless $$$ isnt your main aim. (Maybe you would sell them to get your name out there etc).

I just checked mine - mine shows its a May05 build, and I picked it up in the 1st week of April!

Interesting info about the gearbox noise. I havent noticed any noise at idle but will listen out for it tomorrow to be sure. Have to admit though I would be willing to put up with a little noise so long as it was a rock solid gearbox. All things come at a cost! (My T5 might have been quiet, but it wasnt good in some other more important areas!). I checked some stickers on my car (not the compliance plate yet) and it shows my car is a May 2005 build, which is amazing as I received it in the 1st week of April! I would imagine the build batches dont quite match calendar months. Today I did a bunch of tests to see what 6th gear was like compared to the rest so I could quantify the difference when accelerating at 100kmh. I did numerous 100 to 120kmh runs to see the difference in time taken in different gears - to vaguely simulate an overtake. (Although truth be known, mine usually go a few ks higher....) Results: 100 to 120kmh: 6th gear: 6 seconds 5th gear: 4 seconds 4th gear: 3 seconds 3rd gear: 2 seconds Now you can see why I usually ovetake in 3rd Interestingly, 120-140 in 6th gear was only 5 seconds, so it gets better for higher speed passing as the engine gets a bit higher in the rev range. Goes to show we should all be driving around at 140ish... Oh, and naturally those runs were done on either a closed track with safety personnel nearby and by professional drivers, or in the Northern Territory. Confirmed that 100kmh is pretty close to 1950rpm, so it takes a second or so to reach ~2000rpm where the turbo spools up properly. Id say that was done on purpose, so that for normal cruising the turbo is largely inactive even with minor throttle changes. Initial views of 1st gear is that the torque doesnt quite come on as strong. Its still respectable, but in my Mk1 I would tend to chirp the wheels if I suddenly floored it at 2000rpm or so, and see the TC light flashing a bit. Doesnt happen as much in the new car. Although its possible the 18" wheels make the difference to that end as they likely have a fair bit more grip.

I partially disagree. It is not theft. The supplier has, of their own accord, made a delivery of goods to you. They have dropped them off at your store, with the intent that they become your goods. As someone said, now and then this will mean freebies (does happen) despite the paperwork not accounting for this. This immediately raises potential doubt. An exception to this would be where both parties have a contract between them stipulating that over deliveries must be raised as an issue to the other party. As no active attempt by the employee to acquire or keep goods without good cause has occurred and there is reason as to why oversupply may have been forthcoming, no theft can have occurred. Simply put, there is no intent that can be proven. I can give you another example which is very closely matched. If I am a regular customer at a shop (ie they can find me if they need to) and I one day leave an extra $20 with my payment for something at the shop, there is NOT A CHANCE IN HELL the store can be charged with theft just because they dont tell me about it. They have not acted in a manner which had intent to steal. They can simply claim they didnt notice... (In reality that is exactly what will occur). If, however I go back to the store and demand my $20 back as I made a mistake, and they lie to me and say I didnt leave an extra $20, then they can be charged with fraud, as they are trying to deceive me with the aim of gaining financial advantage. Its DOES become fraud if as I stated the supplier starts asking questions and you deceive the supplier by confirming that only the ordered items were delivered. At that stage I would cease interacting, require my manager to deal with it and if it becomes a bigger issue, get representation of some kind. It is most definitely not theft. Not a chance - and its quite obvious why. Conspiracy charges are alive and well. If you plan to rob a bank with a gun with more than just yourself, you will be charged with conspiracy to commit an attempted armed robbery. If you deceive someone to gain financial advantage with more than one person involved with the dodgyness, you will be charged with conspiracy to commmit fraud. All of these are much more serious charges than just a plain fraud or theft charge and have higher penalties applied. I am responsible for over $750M of my companies expenditure, and know very, very clearly both the ethical and legal responsibilities that apply in this country in a variety of very unusual circumstances - I come across them every day. People get fired and sometimes charged as a result of these issues, all dependent on both ethics and the laws. Both of which I know rather well. Oh, and the person who posted this is acting as an agent of the company he works for. As such he does not carry 100% responsibility for what the company as a whole does. His low position makes this even less so. The reasonable actions in this circumstance (as per my initial post) is to alert his manager of the mistake. This DOES let him off, both legally and in reality. The only exception would be if he was reasonably certain that his manager was doing something dodgy and/or his manager asked him to take actions that the emplyee could reasonably ascertain to be furthering illegally keeping the products. As the employee is definitely not privvy to all communications the manager has with suppliers, there is more than enough reason for the employee to assume the manager took appropriate actions after being alerted. Book 'em Danno.

Some extra info, based on the next 120km of driving, with a fair bit of hard driving over that time. Exhaust: The exhaust note is so different that everyone (without exception) who has been in it with me has commented, and said how much tougher it sounds. It doesnt matter if its at lower revs or higher revs. Its much deeper. Much more throaty. Definitely noticeable even to non-car freaks. People turn and look more often - in my old car it tended to only be if I was at quite high revs. The new noise is growing on me fast! My Mk1 I could best describe as sounding high tech. This I would descibe as sounding tough, and (at least from inside) also high tech - but deeper high tech. You could imagine a factory V8 Turbo sounding not that different. Cant wait to hear it from outside the car. (My test driver is coming over Monday night hopefully...). Turbo: The turbo also has a very different sound. Its hard to describe, but its a completely different note (under high load). Deeper also, as my last T had quite a high pitched whistle - (my Mk1 sounded similar to making a ssss sound through your front teeth or saying SSSSSSSimon whilst whispering quite loudly). If I didnt know better, I would say something on the turbo has been changed. Anyone actually know, like different bearings, different impellor etc? Another possibility is the plumbing is a little different, resulting in a different whistle type sound. Engine noise: The engine noise itself, ie mechanical from under the bonnet when you are accelerating has also changed. I cant really describe it but will take more note in the next few days and try to sum it up in words. Something has definitely changed. No idea what. I will try to sort out what part is the engine and what is new gearbox noise. Low-Mid range response: A current-model SS and I both rolled up to some traffic lights just before they turned green. Both in 2nd gear, both right next to each other knowing what the other was about to do. I was at 2000 revs and he would have been similar as was at the same speed and in the same gear. Lights went green and we both floored it, and I annihiliated him. I was across the intersection just as his car hit powerband half way across the intersection. It is fair to say that the low-midrange is solid, even if it doesnt seem to come on as fast as it did in my old car. (Perhaps it has lower HP but more torque in the midrange - or just that my engine is still tight as hell). Im yet to decide whether my Mk1 or Mk2 would be quicker (due to the added complexity of the new gear ratios - its hard to tell!). Its accurately described as very solid. 6th gear: Ive only done a few kms on the freeway,and will play with it some more. Have only done basic 6th gear testing. 6th gear is pretty much smack bang on 2000 revs at 100kmh (Id say about 1950 revs - to be confirmed). I guess as they know that's where the torque kicks in so its useful at that speed and that many revs whilst also keeping revs and fuel consumption low when cruising. Again, it can accelerate at that speed, but not that well. Id definitely drop it back to 5th, 4th or 3rd depending on how much go I wanted at the time, but for cruising without changing speed, the gear ratio they chose is spot on, as it holds you at the very start of the lovely 450Nm torque wave our engines produce. Gearbox overall: Loving it. It rocks. Its a quality gearbox for sure and I dont think anyone can deny it. Much better than any SS I have driven. Its 2x better than the Mk1 manual thus far - and its still tight and "slow" compared to what it will be after more kms. I reckon if the Mk1 car came with it, the car would have got a 10/10 in _every_ magazine review. I havent done much fast double clutching yet, but it seems predictable, dependable, accurate and sound. I will be interested to see how it goes when I do some hard double clutching. At the moment I have only been doing it in a half-hearted manner as the gear ratios have changed and Im more likely to make a mistake with the revs when double clutching for the next few days as I get used to the new ratios. Drink holder: The drink holder in front of the center console has changed. It no longer has a flip-up/back lid. Its now open air. Has a rubber/plastic insert in it, which grasps 600ml coke bottles very well. At first I missed my flip top lid thing as it covered what was in there (bluetooth headset for my mobile is one thing I used to keep in there) but I must say the weak plastic lid being removed is the right idea as it was not high strength and just asking to be knocked and broken. Center console: The center storage console has a different hinge setup. My old one used to "ratchet" back to full vertical. (I found out from a Ford dealer this was because it wasnt made to go vertical...). This one now opens up vertical with no dramas or noise. Just a normal hinge. It seems they learnt that people dont use it like they thought, and improved how it worked to suit reality Headlight switch: My car is fitted with "headlights always on" option. I am pretty sure the way the headlight stalk is set up is different as I find myself having it in the wrong position (lights still on) when I go to get out of the car now and then. I believe that the headlight switch/stalk has changed...likely because if my memory serves me correctly, the "Auto headlight" feature is now standard on all XR6T's - and the implementation of this has changed how the headlight switch works for cars with "headlights always on" fitted. Slow driving: The noise I earlier described when doing some of my "normal" corners near home at quite low revs appears to actually the gearbox complaining about the low revs, not the engine. It would seem that when accelerating at very low revs (not much faster than idle) in 2nd/3rd the gearbox puts out a noise of some kind. Not loud...its a bit like the noise you get from an engine when you say try to accelerate in 5th gear at 10kmh...a sort of deep vibration more than anything. It seems the noise is coming from just under the gear stick. I wonder if the gearbox makes this noise when it is put under high load at low revs. Its not a problem or anything...just means some of my usual corners will be taken 1 gear lower rather than my occasional ultra lazy "ride the wave or torque" attitude I developed from my Mk1. It is not often this occurs as its not often I am driving so lazily near idle speed in the "wrong" gear. (I could of course just ignore it, as the car seems to cope fine and the noise isnt bad or anything...just different from my Mk1). Driveline shunt: I have noticed it once. But wasnt sure if it was sloppy accelerating on my behalf I will take more note and post info here. I do not believe there is that much shunt, and a careful right foot at low revs can ovecome it. Will post more in the next few days. I would be very interested in the opinions of those who said they were about to get Mk2's. In particular anyone with a Mk1 who now is getting a Mk 2 - and what they think of the exhaust note!

It IS that simple. If you didnt read my post properly, you would have missed the part where I said in reality his responsibility both legally and ethically ends with his reporting the problem to his boss, and its not worth the additional risk by having a direct confrontation about it with his boss - hence a workaround by tipping off the supplier is one option he can consider if he believes it to be safe to do so. If not, inform your boss and move on.

that's an attitude that will bite you one day. Dazza. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> attitude or not, I agree with him! lol. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Which is why both you and him are ethically corrupt. that's nothing to be proud of.

I work with contracts all the time, and huge sums of money....ethics and the law are something I know quite well! (All vanishes out the window though when I jump in my T or on my bike...)

Yes it will be built in May. But when depends on which batch it is in. You could have it delivered early June if it happens to be late in May. But statistically, Id expect it about 18th-20th May.

Ethically its simple: you should not take ownership of goods that arent rightfully yours. I also suggest you call the supplier. To cover your ass, let them know that the best way for them to handle it is to contact your store and tell them they made a packing error and over-supplied those items. Ask them to not mention you called. That way it looks like the supplier made a mistake and realised it soon after - something that could easily happen (and does). Most suppliers will be thankful you did this and help ensure you dont get any flack. If, after getting contacted by the supplier about the problem, your boss however indicates you should tell them (or anyone else) that in fact your count showed the correct number of items when you both know it doesnt, he is asking you to commit fraud. Not just plain fraud, but since more than one of you is involved its conspiracy to commit fraud - much worse again. If your boss makes such a request on you, politely decline saying you have informed him of the error and wish no more involvement in the matter as it is his responsibility. (If he claims it isnt and its your responsibility, your answer is simple "Cool, well then I will do the right thing and inform the supplier of the mistake...problem solved...simple..."). But keep something in mind too. You are NOT duty bound to inform the supplier unless it is part of your role. Your responsibility both ethically and legally ends with properly informing your boss of the delivery mistake. It is reasonable for anyone to expect you to escalate such an issue to your boss, and for him to decide what to do. You do not technically need to be in the know about what he is doing, as your role ended with him being informed. (You can reasonably claim that when he told you to put them on the shelves, you reasonably assumed he was sorting it out with the supplier so putting them on the shelves was the correct thing to do). But whatever happens, do not let him involve you with actively covering anything up, such as if a supplier calls as described above. That is a clear instance of breaking not only ethics, but also the law. The simple rule you should follow is do not lie if someone asks you about them. (You dont have to volunteer the info unless an appropriate person asks). Some bosses are quick to rip people off and take advantage. My advice to you is not to get involved. If you think you can trust the supplier, tip them off and ask them to ask the store for stock return or payment. But if you have *any* doubt, end your involvement by informing your boss. If you have email accounts at your store, email is the best way to do it as you have a trail left behind. I would suggest whatever happens you note the time, place and date you told him for any possible future reference. It is better to be careful about these things. If your boss ever gets done for something and bad deliveries pops up, you can prove you did the right thing.