OED666

No freight today... Hopefully it arrives tomorrow!! :(

Trent0's clutch should arrive today. I'll get some photos when it arrives.

Thank you for the details... Well if you like, we can look at the clutch if it is removed. We are happy to help! The only problem I have is how you have completely bagged the product, yet not given the supplier the opportunity to have a chance to help. Getting the information from you about your car has not been easy. I'm trying to help! I can understand that you are disappointed, and it is inconvenient. If you get the clutch out, box it up, and I'll arrange for it to be picked up. I don't think you would get better support from any other clutch supplier!

Adam - Torque Capacity = Clamp Load x Coef. of Friction x Mean effective radius x No. of Clutch Discs. (I had very briefly covered it, but now its in detail) There is a calculation on how the clutches should hold the Torque. It is a mathematical equation to work it all out. This is what NPC did many years ago to start the development with Mal Wood Automotive and the clutches. We have worked together using the calculations from the experts in this field, and then road testing in cars. Also feedback from customers from what we have supplied... http://mantic.com.au/sub_technical/clamp_v_torque.html http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0407tur_clutch_tech_basics/viewall.html Now, lets all remember that some variables are not taken into account.. The clamp actually applied to the disc (if the disc is slipped), tempreature etc.. These are pretty much controlled by the person operating the pedals...

umm.. not sure on that... 127.7MPH doesn't show signs of that.. I personally have done 13.8 @ 99 mph, and later on, a 15.1 @ 98MPH... no slipping clutch, just wheel spin caused the slow time. Why are people ALWAYS just looking for an excuse... :S Also, has anyone noticed the silver BA XR6T I posted up pages ago. It seems that one was let go through to the keeper!

I suppose the 63 Option 3 Plus XR6T clutches sold last year speak for themselves... By the looks of it, 2 had issues (1 was due to grease on the flywheel as posted earlier). Yet to get any firm details from STAINLESS on his clutch. Also, another modified XR6T on 20psi, 453RWKW with an Option 3 Plus, with more power than the clutch is rated for, and its holding!! In the words of Basil Fawlty, "a satisfied customer, maybe we should have him stuffed!" Runs 12.69 @ 127.7MPH. The time isn't great, but the MPH is quite impressive. The attached dyno sheet was shortly after the clutch went in, and then it got a few more things done to it.

This car... http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2010/sports/fpv/f6-series/fpv-boss-to-race-f6-in-endurance-race-19787 has an Option 3 Plus... Competed in Bathurst 12 hour in 2011, came 5th outright.

The point I was trying to make, is that if you look at the dyno sheets, the torque of the 6L is around 550nm, and the turbo is higher, but what you are comparing is the 6L at 3500rpm, and the peak torque of the turbo 4L. That's also apples and oranges!!

That is correct. They have a 3/4" bore master, and 35mm of stroke.

Luke, you didnt call me today? I don't have your number, so I can't call you. I have attached some dyno sheets with a VE 6L and FG Turbo. Your estimate of the torque ratings is a fair bit off. Check the dyno sheets attached in post So, can you please give me a run down.. When did you get your clutch? Who installed it? How long did you let it bed in for? How many k's had the car done before you had issues? If you haven't noticed, I am trying to help here. I admit I have been giving a bit of attitude, however I'm just returning what has been dished out. Yes. I still believe the clutches supplied are great. Obviously these car's might need a more aggressive plate. Stainless might need an Option 4, and Luke needs cerametallic plates. Possible, but very unlikely that a clutch was sent without a slave. We are certainly not cutting costs and not supplying slave cylinders. 3 main components determine the holding capability of a clutch. Diameter of disc, disc material and pressure plate clamping force. Both the Option 3 Plus and Option 5 use premium organic materials... The 11" in the Option 3 Plus has a rather wide material face, and with the twin plate, you have 2x 10.5" discs, so there is plenty of material to grab. Both pressure plates have plenty of clamp, with a little less on the twin so that it will release nicely. Mal has been in business for around 35 years. He knows a lot about this industry, seen alot and knows what works with driveline components. NPC where we do get some of these components from have also been around for 21 years. We have a working relationship with these products, and together have developed these clutches.

Thank you for finally answering my questions!! I can tell you that there is a setup issue if you need a 17mm spacer for the slave cylinder with this clutch. I just placed a clutch on a 4L engine, with sandwich plate and measured from the fingers to the block. I got 85mm. From the bellhousing face to the slave cylinder I measured up 69mm. This gives you 16mm of crush. You need 14-17mm of crush for the slave cylinder. No spacer is requried. There is no way a 17mm spacer could fit under the slave and the transmission be fitted, as the slaves bottom out at 24-25mm of crush.

Who has deleted anything? I certainly haven't!

Its up to the clutch supplier to state how the clutch is rated, RW or FW... I agree a track car will be under less stress than at the drags. I can't see why it will not hold the power. Just don't slip it excessively. The clutches we offer can do street and occassional strip. I have an Option 1 in my ED XR6, which has probably done 90 odd passes down the strip, with most of the launches at 5000rpm with traction. The clutch has done around 60,000k's. Yes it has less power than the rating for the clutch, but it is not rated to be slipped at 5000rpm. For everyone reading this, I only knew about Luke's latest clutch issue today, reading it on here. The first time we got the clutch back for an inspection, it had grease contamination. I would be interested to see what's going on this time! Umm... Don't really know about that comment. So your getting upset that I have made a point about a clutch lasting, and given a hard time. You have said they way over rated with the power levels. I have stated some pretty simple facts. Again, you do not answer my question. Where did you buy your clutch from? Did you contact us, or the supplier when you had an issue? If not, why? If I didn't care about the product, and customer satisfaction do you think I would be here now? Yes, I do feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall for a select few! Again, who exactly did you purchase the clutch from? Who was it you dealt with? Unless the cars are trailered everywhere, then street use does have something to do with it. People do care about how it drives. They don't want the pedal to shudder, clutch to be "on" or "off", and to be quiet. The XR6T Option 3 Plus is rated for 410RWKW... I'm not banging my head with you Luke. What did you do to resolve the problem with the pedal? From the photo it doesnt appear as though you have a pedal assist spring. That spring there in the photo needs to be there. So if you take your new standard car to the drags, break the tailshaft or diff and you then expect Ford to warrant it? Not bloody likely... I would like to see how you can launch on the street like you do on the track. I have tried many times, and all it ends up in is wheelspin and going no where.

Mate, can you please not post rubbish in this thread! We are trying to have a civilised discussion! If you want to post sh!t, go to fordforums.com.au

Have you not stated that the clutches are FAILING well below the expected power level? I used my ute as an example, as it has well under the rated power the clutch, and it still works, after 125,000km's. Going by what you are saying, it should have failed by now! I have no idea why your clutch failed. Did you call and talk to us? You would be suprised that a lot of people do not bed clutches in! Not wanting to sound rude, but if you feel you will not be happy with the clutch, (if it is still in un-used condition) we will happily refund your money. We know the product works! Again, as I have said to STAINLESS, I used Rollin's as an example as going by the general theory of this thread, the clutches will hold half the rated power. Rollin only has 315RWKW, but it is driven much harder than most people would think! Luke, the only recommendation I have for your clutch is cerametallic discs. Can you tell me if the FG's have a pedal assist spring on the clutch pedal?

Michael, I have always quoted the Option 5 to hold 550RWKW, yet there are cars out there with more than 600RWKW with the Option 5, and they are holding the power nicely. As I have said a million times, bed the clutch in, (they don't have full clamp from the start. once they are bedded in, they get full clamp). Does anyone fit new brake pads and rotors, and just go along the highway and just stand on them and expect them to work fully? I hope not! They need to be bedded in, same as a clutch. Same as if you trail the brake pedal, the brakes will wear out, if you slip the clutch, it will also wear out. The ED I am referring to is Rollin's, which I am sure you well know from boostedfalcon.net We supplied the Option 3 Plus to Ted Robinson Racing for their FG F6 Typhoon. This vehicle entered the Bathurst 12 hour in 2011. It came 5th outright, and 3rd in its class. It had some well known guys driving the car too. We had great feedback regarding the driveline which we supplied. The vehicle will be racing again in the 12 hour in Febuary. Surely this speaks for itself that the clutch can handle 12 hours around bathurst. In saying that, its the same clutch still in the car for this year too.

No, but Mal has an XR6T ute? Why does it matter if MY ute isn't a turbo? I have had that for awhile too, gave that a hiding at PowerCruise, and while it was doing daily duties. We pulled it all apart when doing the head change in Dec 2011..

Ensure the clutch has been bedded in, drive it properly, and it should not fail. Abuse it, slip it, and there is a fair chance it will not like it. Rosie who is a member of these forums has an Option 5 in his XR6T. He does regular track meets, and drives his car fairly hard. It used to be a daily driver. We removed his clutch to fit another and we found it was in excellent condition. All we did is replace the plates and on his way! There were no hot spots on the flywheel, a few on the intermediate plate, but for a car driven in Sydney traffic it was very impressive. I also see no one has commented on the Turbo ED.. I suppose that might have been a lucky Option 5 that slipped through and worked!! :S

Stainless - Fail at reading! If you actually ready my post properly, my work ute is fitted with an Option 3... Rated for 350RWKW. Going by what you have been saying, that the clutches are failing with MUCH less power than what they are rated for, yet my ute with 125,000k's on it, which gets driven hard, and this clutch hasn't let go! No, we haven't tried these materials... I spoke to Doug from NPC at great length about this particular clutch today. I will quote a few things he said The Option 5 Twin Plate can hold 550RWKW... 3 things determine the power a clutch can hold. Diameter of the clutch plate, friction material and clamp of the pressure plate. The Option 5 ticks all these boxes! He also said, it comes down to its manner of operation... Get off the clutch pedal asap, then it will have full clamping pressure and then get on the go pedal! For Lukes car, he suggested x2 10 pad cerametallic discs. It won't be as nice and fluffy on the street, but it will do what you want on the track. How long did your original clutch last? Also, do FG's have a clutch pedal assist spring? I know in early VE's (cue Stainless's comment) they had an issue with the clutch pedal sticking to the floor. They replaced the clutch master, slave, flywheel and clutch.

??? What are Expensive Daewoo clutches??? We use the same clutch discs as fitted to the NPC twin plate which are composite organic. They are mainly organic with a copper ribbon through the material. Correct Fail... Care to elaborate? I would have thought if you are going to contribute to this discussion, you would right something meaningful and within context of what we are discussing.

Yes in theory you could. You need to ensure the clutch plate thickness is correct so that the clutch releases properly.

If your T5 is a little tired, it might also want some bearings at the same time. To eliminate any end-float in the cluster, input and mainshaft, "pre-load" is put on the bearings. This is adjusted by shimming under the bearings until they are correct. The transmission is stripped bare and re-assembled in pieces with the shimming done on the main components. Very grey area! Castrol changed the dye (and that's all they claim to have changed) in Transmax Z, from green to a light brown. Ever since this change, we have had shift quality issues with TR-6060's, as they have brass synchros. The earlier T56 has carbon synchros, and the newer transmaz is fine.

The common denominator we have found is the following for loose flywheel bolts: High Boost Levels, or if the boost comes on very hardAftermarket Harmonic BalancersAxle TrampWe had 1 car that had the bolts come loose twice! We used new standard bolts, with 3 locking tabs which went on 2 bolts per tab.

The clutches we offer are given an expected power rating under normal driving conditions. Its the same with tyres.. I have no doubts they can hold the power expected, when driven properly! Take for instance this guy.. He purchased a clutch rated for 500RWHP for his ED 6 cylinder turbo. It was tuned with 370RWHP, and it failed in 5 days. No warranty! We did a mad clutch change that night and put in a standard BF N/A XR6 clutch and it lasted the rest of the weekend, with plenty of racing (and it did slip a bit in 4th). Few months later, purchases an Option 5, squeezed a litte more power 424RWHP and it gets no end of abuse. Same car with Option 5 I have personally been in this car with 4 other poeple, popped the clutch in 3rd and 4th and it turns the tyres.

This is an LS1 input shaft, but they run the same style of standard spigot bearing.