turbotrana Member 2,586 Member For: 21y 29d Gender: Male Posted 26/08/15 03:57 AM Share Posted 26/08/15 03:57 AM What you want to focus on is learning to dial in an injector in order to get actual lambda to match the lambda in the Base Fuel table. Once you get this matching as best you can I would rather adjust bits of the Base fuel table lambda to get to where I want rather than altering the injector slopes.The way I do it is I set the base fuel table all to one figure. Say 12:1. Then thru cruising/idling/moderate acceleration , it is a juggling act mainly between Hi slope, low slope and injector offset. For injector offset I just use the one figure for all voltages unless you have data from a injector supplier. All three influence one another so it takes a bit of juggling to get to where you want. Nevertheless as a tuning exercise, a "real tuner" should be able to take any injector and play around with the above three variables to get the car to drive like stock.But with injectors like ID1000 you have the data and just need a bit of touch up and verification. So yes, very easy. Note that injector offset influences fuel heaps at idle and it is just as important variable as hi and lo slope.You will be in hi slope just off idle also.A sign of poor injector calibration is simply a bad cold start. My Nizpro injectors where I use my data starts first pop and straight into gear with no hesitation. Nizpro supplied data was crap and just caused poor drivability. I still scratch my head about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollex Member 682 Member For: 9y 10m 21d Gender: Male Location: Australia Posted 26/08/15 04:13 AM Share Posted 26/08/15 04:13 AM (edited) Yep I agree that sounds much easier. I guess what I was saying is use ID1000 data, get commanded AFR matching actual AFR and then once it is all done I can tweak the injector slope slightly, then just offset the map slightly (make it slightly leaner to account for the increased slope) then I will effectively have a rising rate fuel reg meaning if I get a higher duty cycle for any reason it will run slightly richer than I've asked it to, eg running more boost due to something failing etc.I guess if I tune it at 11.5 everything will be fine, I just like building some AFR safety into the tune if something happens as I've done on other cars with real time tuning. Perhaps I'm better off using the other built in protection like max airflow or something like that or simply not worrying about it.Something else is intake temperature measured before or after the turbo? If it is after the turbo I could manipulate the air temp enrichment to achieve what I'm after as more boost equals more heat. Edited 26/08/15 04:13 AM by rollex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotrana Member 2,586 Member For: 21y 29d Gender: Male Posted 26/08/15 06:41 AM Share Posted 26/08/15 06:41 AM I suggest forgetting all this safety stuff you are trying to do.Just tune it along the lines of how Ford tuned it. You are trying to do something outside the scope of this tuning tutorial. Once you master the basics then you will be able to answer your own questions above. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH8TOADS Silver Donating Members 3,618 Member For: 18y 9m 21d Gender: Male Location: OZ Posted 26/08/15 07:41 AM Share Posted 26/08/15 07:41 AM I agree with turbotrana. Stick with the basics and your experience will steer you from there.Air temp is measured by the t-MAP....so in the manifold. The injector breakpoint and min pulsewidth are important also....especially with the deka 60. The breakpoint is the fuel mass calculated by the PCM (based on the SD model) at which the PCM switches from using the high or low slope scalar in the injector pulsewidth calculation. If you use a breakpoint that is too low, then you will switch to the high slope prematurely and have a rich condition (ID1000 or deka 60 for example). This works in reverse for the ID1300 / KPM1500 where the published low slope is lower than the high slope. If you use the published Deka 60 minimum pulsewidth and offset you will be running off the min pulsewidth at idle and never be able to achieve closed loop. The min pulsewidth on the calibration sheets is a statistical value and not a 'theoretical' minimum that the PCM uses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollex Member 682 Member For: 9y 10m 21d Gender: Male Location: Australia Posted 26/08/15 08:12 AM Share Posted 26/08/15 08:12 AM (edited) How do you determine the breakpoint? Can someone explain why a breakpoint is needed as well, what is the physical process which makes the injectors not flow linearly?Do some PCMs have a full 2D injector map? Or do they all have a simple 3 point curve ? I agree with turbotrana. Stick with the basics and your experience will steer you from there.Air temp is measured by the t-MAP....so in the manifold.Excuse my ignorance, when you say manifold you mean after the throttle body yeah? Edited 26/08/15 08:24 AM by rollex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH8TOADS Silver Donating Members 3,618 Member For: 18y 9m 21d Gender: Male Location: OZ Posted 26/08/15 09:08 AM Share Posted 26/08/15 09:08 AM The Ford model is explained in the Injector Dynamics articles etc. Best just read through that. Yes, post throttle body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotrana Member 2,586 Member For: 21y 29d Gender: Male Posted 26/08/15 09:14 AM Share Posted 26/08/15 09:14 AM I can't answer everything but will give you a bit of an outline.You can calculate the ms of injector opening for when breakpoint occurs. Calc in on HP forums somewhere.I have used a multimeter that has a injector ms function and put wires from the injector into the cabin so I can see where the injector is at.From there I could tell if I was on the lo slope or high slope. You would avoid scaling anywhere around the breakpoint area as unclear whether one or the other.Basically breakpoint is pretty much just off idle.Life would be easier if there was some sort of breakpoint flag in the datalogging. Anyway this is the way I do it. Someone else may do it differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollex Member 682 Member For: 9y 10m 21d Gender: Male Location: Australia Posted 27/08/15 01:58 AM Share Posted 27/08/15 01:58 AM (edited) Ok that helps. Can someone explain the difference between OBD, DMR and PID in livelink? I'm guessing PID is the raw value but I'm unsure the difference between the other two.Also any good guides of which items to log. It appears there are multiple that seem to be the same thing so it is quite hard to filter through them to find the most "correct" one. Edited 27/08/15 02:06 AM by rollex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotrana Member 2,586 Member For: 21y 29d Gender: Male Posted 27/08/15 05:18 AM Share Posted 27/08/15 05:18 AM (edited) Maybe Jet can chime in on this one!!!! He is good at datalogging but knows nothing about tuning. Edited 27/08/15 05:19 AM by turbotrana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollex Member 682 Member For: 9y 10m 21d Gender: Male Location: Australia Posted 27/08/15 05:23 AM Share Posted 27/08/15 05:23 AM Maybe Jet can chime in on this one!!!! He is good at datalogging but knows nothing about tuning.lolI was wondering why he wasn't posting in here. maybe he is allergic to newbs like me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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