The Future For V8's

[PAH]

Hi all,

It looks like New GM has finally axed the Commontiac from it line up. The quote below is taken from the Drive website:

“The G8 will not be a [Chevrolet] Caprice, after all,” said Lutz. “I’d said we were studying it, giving it a serious look, because a car like the [Commodore-based] G8 was just too good to waste. “That’s all still true, but with my new ‘marketing’ hat on, upon further review and careful study, we simply cannot make a business case for such a program. Not in today’s market, in this economy, and with fuel regulations what they are and will be.”

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleD...ArticleID=64419

The article includes positive comments about the car, but that appears not to be enough to save it for the US market. I note with interest the last few words in this quote. Fuel regulation concerns!

I avoided buying another Late model camira V8 this time round for pretty much this reason. The XR6T is about 2L / 100 kms more frugal. That's probably heaps less than will be required in the future but it's a start. The XR6T has more accessible torque than the Gen III. Nor does it rattle on start-up. Ford gets its rattles and clunks from other sources - the XR6T M6 gearbox.

The above mentioned article indicates the New GM has bitten the bullet and is marketing cars that fit the trends of the not too distant future.

Ford and GM in Australia continue to use V8 Supercars to prop up V8's. At least Ford has the XR6T. Expensive Daewoo has apparently developed a high output V6 with Direct Injection and also a 3.0L variant. Ford is reportedly working on a 4 cyl Falcon. Current news releases point clearly towards the future.

I hope like hell that Ford and Expensive Daewoo AVOID the front wheel drive option. I also hope that they downsize their cars (at least a tad). I guess we've all got different needs, but the VL Commode suits me. Where will Ford go with performance engines? The current XR6T engine would no doubt be even more economical with Direct Injection and in a lighter car.

Expensive Daewoo has introduced cylinder deactivation on their V8, but I understand that it's only available on the auto. The best form of variable capacity engine is forced induction. Six cylinder economy driven normally, and V8 grunt when needed.

I'd be interested to know how much value V8 Supercars is to Ford and Holden. As far as I can see, it's promoting the types of cars that Lutz in the US has vetoed for fuel reasons. Bathurst in the Brock, Moffat and Johnson days was INTERESTING and RELEVANT because it enabled prospective buyers to see how well the various cars performed. I'd be happy to see V8 Supercars DUMPED and XR6T's racing against Commodes. And while they're at it, open up the series to other makes too. I know - there was (?) a series that catered for this. If it still exists, it gets VERY LITTLE publicity. Shame about that. Let's see how market trends impact upon future Falcons and Commodores, and therefore V8 Supercars.

PAH

[Pete A]

I read about the new hi-output V6 from Expensive Daewoo yesterday. Set to challenge the standard Falcon engine and not being considered to challenge the I6T option. Although I really cannot see how they can continue to have a hole in their product line like this. The general just doesn't have anything to combat the i6T/F6 and on the surface doesn't seem worried about it. Maybe it's too late as Henry has about what 12 years + experience in this technology locally already. I think what Ford is doing looks very interesting right now. A 4Cl Falcon seems too hard for me to handle right now, even if the specs seem reasonable. What these guys provide to "joe average" will be interesting to watch, but what they do to their performance models I think will be work in progress for a while yet. With the I6 engine factory remaining open, yet the engine running out of compliance spec soon, a V6 seems destined from about 2012. I think we will all wait and see with great interest. The thought of Henry or the General not having a rear wheel offering in Australia is just too hard for me to consider right now. Buy a couple of 6T's and F6's and store them away and just watch their value skyrocket!

[ForceFed]

Perhaps GM will resurect the Supercharged 6 to compete with the Forced Induction 6 of FoMoCo. GM have years of R & D to draw on as the engine was used in the local Late model camira for many years. Cylinder shutdown on the 8's and even 6's may well be feasible in the not so distant future. The HEMI 8 does this to good effect already, no?

As for no local RWD they can forget that! FWD cars are mostly awful to drive hard and suffer from terrible understeer when pushed through cornering. I guess the best way forward may be AWD like Subaru seem to do so well.

[Dagabond]

Second page of Cars Guide in the Sun on Friday hinted that a TT HSV was being dynoed at the proving ground....

[NB4C]

Cylinder deactivation on V8's doesn't save much fuel at this point. It's because 4 cylinder mode only ever comes on at constant cruising speeds. What the V8s need is an option that allows the driver to manually lock in the 4 cylinder mode so the car can save fuel when the driver wants it. In light footed city driving - 4 cylinder power is enough.

[Venom XR6]

I read about the new hi-output V6 from Expensive Daewoo yesterday. Set to challenge the standard Falcon engine and not being considered to challenge the I6T option. Although I really cannot see how they can continue to have a hole in their product line like this. The general just doesn't have anything to combat the i6T/F6 and on the surface doesn't seem worried about it. Maybe it's too late as Henry has about what 12 years + experience in this technology locally already. I think what Ford is doing looks very interesting right now. A 4Cl Falcon seems too hard for me to handle right now, even if the specs seem reasonable. What these guys provide to "joe average" will be interesting to watch, but what they do to their performance models I think will be work in progress for a while yet. With the I6 engine factory remaining open, yet the engine running out of compliance spec soon, a V6 seems destined from about 2012. I think we will all wait and see with great interest. The thought of Henry or the General not having a rear wheel offering in Australia is just too hard for me to consider right now. Buy a couple of 6T's and F6's and store them away and just watch their value skyrocket!

Future emmisions compliance for the I6 is not a problem. Euro 4 spec will be ready next year, and the government hasn't even set a date for Euro 5, which will be at least another 5 years after that, and its a fairly small step from Euro 4 to 5, and poses absolutely no challenges for the I6. Trust me.

In terms of V8's Ford have the advantage here as the Coyote will be very good on fuel and emmisions. Its got plenty of technology fitted, and the direct injection version will be ready within a year or two of its release later this year in Mustang to further lower consumption and emmisions.

With 2 valves per cylinder, pushrods and big capacity, and no form of VCT or VVT, the LS3 is up against future emmisions compliance without a ground up redesign, and since GM has no money it may not get the investment it needs. They had a new DOHC V8 on the go but it was axed because they couldn't afford to do it.