Bf Vs Ve

[SavageF6]

VE doesn't worry me one bit. I'll reserve judgement on that interior too, sounds like stuff that's all been done before to me. People have been hooking up all sorts of cool sh*t and putting in screens in headrests in the BAs for years.

[jonom]

I think the VE will surpass the BF quite easily, it will be like the BA vs VY. I think Fords new car "Orion" will do to Expensive Daewoo what the BA/BF has for the last 4 years. Expensive Daewoo have had 4 years to respond to the BA/BF which they have done so and gone that little bit further to give it that edge.

[Phoon Hoon]

I think the VE will surpass the BF quite easily, it will be like the BA vs VY.

←

...and that's the point I'm trying to make. I've heard a heap of comments like this, so in what areas will it surpass the BF? Engines? Transmisison? Chassis? I'm trying to avoid wideranging statements like the one you've made to get some thoughts on where, specifically, the VE will surpass the BF.

I know one thing, there's a heap of HSV/SS drivers who do not realise just how good the FPVs are. They have never driven a ZF-equipped Typhoon and do not realise just how far the VE needs to come before it gets near the Falcons. In many areas, it will be simply playing catch-up.

[replicant]

Even since Jac Nasser slowed development on the AU, Ford and Expensive Daewoo have ended up being out of sequence with their launches - to be honest, it's a good thing!

Historically, the arrived with a leaf sprung rear end and a carbie (it wasn't until XE that the watts linkage/coil rear end arrived), EA26 arrived with a three speeder harking back to XA or earlier, the wheezy 3.2 and 3.9 throttle body injection unless you took the MPEFI option + no V8 engineered in... we won't even mention the mess that the AU was...

Expensive Daewoo have now taken the lead with the introduction of new models... which is not necessarily a good thing. The Adventra was rolled out as a Territory spoiler but what it did was show how badly a wagon/peoplemover/AWD could be if it was executed on a legacy platform without sufficient desig/development and showed how good the Territory was when it was launched. After AU, Geoff Polites made sure that the BF and SX Territory did not self destruct although some niggling quality issues remain - it's a lesson Ford learnt the hard way.

The VE has had to up the game as the current VZ is an aging platform with some early adoption engines but not drivetrains. Expensive Daewoo have had to up the game to match the very successful BA/BF series which apples with apples is a quieter, better car against VZ.

Predictions - the crystal ball says...

Engines - expect incremental changes maybe about 10-15kw upgrade at most across the range (unless there is a forced induction motor to rival the XR6T) but expect this to make little difference to performance... after additional weight in the chassis (and equipment) makes it's mark... also expect higher final drive gearing to reduce fuel consumption making a mark too.

Chassis: The semitrailing rear end dates back to Opel days and will be consigned to the dust bin - expect to see a true multi-link like the Falcon. The big change will be the extra weight of this in the rear end plus strengthening of the monocoque for power/refinement/handling/safety adding more weight as well as the extra equipment.

Transmission: GM Powertrain have the 6LE80 somewhere in the catalog which is a 6 speed capable of handling, if required up to 800Nm. Expect to see this in the high end/performance variants. The SV6 or equivalent will continue with the 5 speeder and this will probably go across the range - I can't see the fleet specials getting the premium 6 speeder.

Extras: DSC/ESP goes across the board - which is a good thing in a rear wheel drive car with more than adequate power - it will probably save some lives... although I am really wondering how much cost and weight is going in here against the constant issue of fuel economy and reduced market size for the big sixes. Diversity means more options but lots of cost and complexity at manufacture... Expensive Daewoo will try and leap forward here but don't expect Ford to wait too long to match... The SS with all the fruit is going to cost a bomb and go further upmarket but will hang around just around the luxury tax mark....

[brendan24688]

Apprently the V6 will still only have 190KW. Expensive Daewoo have saiid that the Ve will not have 200 KW. Don't forget BFII will be out around October so Ve could encounter a little competion.

[Romulus]

The VE being released probably doesn't worry Ford too much IMO. GMH are masters in marketing, just like Coca-Cola and McDonalds. Now, you wouldn't really call their products good, but it's ingrain in most people to buy a Coke with their meal or by a macca's burger.

I buy my cars based on the performance capability of the car. If GMH/HSV can release a car that is superior to what I have now, I'd consider upgrading.

Until then, nothing short of $200k is better value for money than the F6

[drcook]

This car will be the improvement of the century in comparison to the vz, but I dont think in mechanical terms this car will be any form of improvement over the BF. the transmission will be the same, the rear suspension system cannot get massively better than the fords, the engines will remain the same, but the weight of this car will jump big time.

But as said by M6, Expensive Daewoo sales will be better than fords for one reason. MARKETING. Expensive Daewoo outclass ford in the marketing department and in my view people are still shy of ford after the au disaster. Expensive Daewoo will use the new stability control as a big selling point and, lets face it, everyone likes to see a new car design on the roads which will gather interest by itself.

Interesting to note that the basic commo (used for fleet sales) has been reported to come with the same ageing four-speed auto as in the vz. match this with the rough v6 and additional weight, and I see potential problems for the big H in fleet sales.

I also will be completely shocked if holden does not release a turbo/supercharged 6 cyl.

[TurboDewd]

I also will be completely shocked if holden does not release a turbo/supercharged 6 cyl.

←

We would have heard about it by now if it was gonna happen. Id be surprised if they made one.

[Flukey]

Even since Jac Nasser slowed development on the AU, Ford and Expensive Daewoo have ended up being out of sequence with their launches - to be honest, it's a good thing! 

Historically, the arrived with a leaf sprung rear end and a carbie (it wasn't until XE that the watts linkage/coil rear end arrived), EA26 arrived with a three speeder harking back to XA or earlier, the wheezy 3.2 and 3.9 throttle body injection unless you took the MPEFI option + no V8 engineered in... we won't even mention the mess that the AU was...

Expensive Daewoo have now taken the lead with the introduction of new models... which is not necessarily a good thing.  The Adventra was rolled out as a Territory spoiler but what it did was show how badly a wagon/peoplemover/AWD could be if it was executed on a legacy platform without sufficient desig/development and showed how good the Territory was when it was launched.  After AU, Geoff Polites made sure that the BF and SX Territory did not self destruct although some niggling quality issues remain - it's a lesson Ford learnt the hard way.

The VE has had to up the game as the current VZ is an aging platform with some early adoption engines but not drivetrains.  Expensive Daewoo have had to up the game to match the very successful BA/BF series which apples with apples is a quieter, better car against VZ.

Predictions - the crystal ball says...

Engines - expect incremental changes maybe about 10-15kw upgrade at most across the range (unless there is a forced induction motor to rival the XR6T) but expect this to make little difference to performance... after additional weight in the chassis (and equipment) makes it's mark... also expect higher final drive gearing to reduce fuel consumption making a mark too.

Chassis: The semitrailing rear end dates back to Opel days and will be consigned to the dust bin - expect to see a true multi-link like the Falcon.  The big change will be the extra weight of this in the rear end plus strengthening of the monocoque for power/refinement/handling/safety adding more weight as well as the extra equipment.

Transmission: GM Powertrain have the 6LE80 somewhere in the catalog which is a 6 speed capable of handling, if required up to 800Nm.  Expect to see this in the high end/performance variants.  The SV6 or equivalent will continue with the 5 speeder and this will probably go across the range - I can't see the fleet specials getting the premium 6 speeder.

Extras: DSC/ESP goes across the board - which is a good thing in a rear wheel drive car with more than adequate power - it will probably save some lives... although I am really wondering how much cost and weight is going in here against the constant issue of fuel economy and reduced market size for the big sixes.  Diversity means more options but lots of cost and complexity at manufacture... Expensive Daewoo will try and leap forward here but don't expect Ford to wait too long to match...  The SS with all the fruit is going to cost a bomb and go further upmarket but will hang around just around the luxury tax mark....

←

Good post.

[Space Ace]

Living in Port Melbourne, which is around the corner form Expensive Daewoo HQ, I've seen the VE getting around a fair bit... not my cup of tea in terms of styling both inside and out... the sound of the 8 is still below par compared to the XR8 & GT....

Funny story - went to KFC along the West Gate on Monday night and there was a white VE sitting in the carpark, heavily camouflaged with front and rear black bras and was also left hand drive (hello USA)....anyway's.... son no 1 asks me why they are trying to disguise the look of the car.... in my response - knowing fully well that the VE drivers window was down and he could hear me - was that it is a god damn ugly piece of sh*t car purposely built for idiot drivers... then son 1 proceeds to ask - is it fast?... no boy, get in the Turbo, hold the chicken and chips and I'll show you fast.....