Police On Notice Over Chase Protocol

[Falchoon]

No wonder Plonky is disillusioned with the force - cops are dammned if they do and dammned if they don't chase. I bet it's not the the cops crashing or causing the crashes, it's the morons that are being chased that get their ambitions mixed up with their abilities.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/police...8562943328.html

Police on notice over chase protocol

By Debra Jopson

October 7, 2005

The police have been warned that the State Parliament Staysafe Committee expects stronger action to manage high-speed car chases after the revelation that almost one in seven ends in a crash, the committee's chairman, Paul Gibson, said yesterday.

It is a "grave source of concern" that the crash rate as a result of police pursuits has grown over the past financial year from 8 to 13 per cent, he said.

"The innocent victims have always got to be the number one priority. The police have to make a decision very quickly. I understand that. But they have to work out if the result is worth the risk," Mr Gibson said.

The police had protocols that "should fall into place to give them that result", but he was concerned that in some cases they were not being followed.

The increased pressure on police from Staysafe follows a Herald investigation's finding that 284 out of 2146 chases last year ended in a crash and that at least 11 innocent people have been killed and hundreds injured through police pursuits in the past 11 years. Internal documents show police have often ignored the rules when giving chase.

Mr Gibson said he wanted to speak to senior police about their promise to deliver a new policy on police chases.

Recommendations that the committee made 11 years ago, including putting black boxes in cars to monitor pursuits, had taken too long to implement, he said.

He also wants to hear about a new system that allows supervisors to keep tabs on police officers, who must indicate when they respond to a job if they are travelling at "code red", which allows them to speed.

When they call "code blue" they must follow standard driving practice.

The former deputy police commissioner, Dave Madden, told Staysafe in February that without "coded driving" supervisors did not know if cars were travelling at high speed. The system would be rolled out statewide the following month, he said.

However, the NSW Police traffic services commander, John Hartley, revealed this week that the system was still being trialled and had yet to be implemented across the state.

The shadow attorney-general, Andrew Tink, yesterday called on the Government to introduce a specific criminal offence for drivers who try to outrun a police pursuit.

"There are plenty of rules restricting police in police pursuits but no specific laws restricting the criminals they are trying to chase," he said.

Meanwhile the NSW Ombudsman is continuing an investigation into whether police are complying with their own safe driving policy, Assistant Ombudsman Simon Cohen said yesterday.

[mickq]

I think its fair enough.

Turns out the police were lying to their supervisors and saying they had called off the pusuit as ordered (because the supervisor deemed it was too dangerous as per guidelines) when in fact they were still pursuing the offenders. That places us all at risk - they call off pursuits when its getting too dangerous and the police chasing close by is leading to the offender running red lights at high speed and so on.

Not only did they lie to their supervisors, but some of them did tricks like changing frequencies on their radios so they didnt hear the "call it off" order that they knew was coming.

Dont get me wrong - the dickheads committing the crimes deserve to pay, but NOT at the cost of Joe Blow driving home from work getting T-boned by a crim doing 150 through a red light with the cops 50m behind him.

Reminds me of a case that happened about 1km from where I live. Cops chased 4 x 15yo kids in a car they had stolen. After about 30mins of pursuit the kids started driving very recklessly trying to get away. The chase got to high speed and the cops were ordered to call it off, drop back without lights and sirens, as the helicopter was nearby and would take over. The young idiots were doing about 150kmh in a residential 60 zone and had run several lights at high speed - leading to the (correct) order to stop the close pursuit.

The guys crashed into a tree or fence, Either 2 or 4 of them died. The cops immediately claimed they could not be blamed for pursuing them too hard as they had dropped back and were 2km away, as their supervisor had ordered. They said they arrived an estimated 4mins after the crash.

However at least 2 witnesses who lived where the crash occurred said the cop car came to a halt at the scene less than 10 seconds after the accident. It was pretty clear the cops had lied and were still actively pursuing when the crash occurred.

Them stealing some sh*tbox car wasnt good, but being realistic catching them immediately instead of a bit later was not worth all their lives.

Seems like similar problems are occurring in NSW and its suddenly got public.

I understand the cops chasing bad guys - all very exciting and they must be keen to get them, but not when it places everyone else in severe danger. that's why I dont have a huge problem with the "call it off" rules as they tend to be applied in reasonable and well defined circumstances.

The only time I can see it being "stop them at all costs" is when they are actively trying to kill people, ram cars etc and have shown even when not pursued closely they will continue their running red lights at high speed etc.

That being said, when a criminal manages to only kill himself and those who joined him in the crime, I dont exactly feel bad...

[ZAP]

I think the biggest problem with persuits in NSW is that the cops have their hands tied.

They cannot nudge a car around to spin them out like they do int he USA, the only methods are persue the car untill it runs out of fuel or crashes or road spikes.

It is a joke, cops could push a car off the road when they are turning a corner to spin them out and this can end a persuit in a few seconds and put the public in less risk. The crims know that once a persuit goes over 150km/h, they cross the center line or drive recklessly the police should terminate the pursuit, so they drive like tools to make the cops stop , but in the meanwhile they are putting jo blow public at a huge risk.

The high speed pursuit is also like a huge rush for both cops and crims, so they are acting like its some sort of testesterone rush and they tend to be ignorant as to the danger that everyone is in.

I used to listen tot he police scanner and I heard many times cops being asked how fast they were going, the response was 160km/h, then the supervisor got on the air and repeated the question and the answer was 100km/h, with laughing heard in the background.

You cannot always blame the cops for wanting to catch the scumbags, but it often ends in tears.

[Blonk]

Yep.. Can't chase em

Can't shoot em.....

Poor babies...

Criminals are so damn soft these days....

If it was in SE asia they would wait and shoot them dead in the street later.. Therefore making way for the next set of experts....

Heat seekers I say..........

No more risking anything........

[plonky]

They have never implemented a system to STOP offenders from driving away.

Every system has been on the basis that the crook being chased will comply with the lights and sirens of the pursuing car.

If we were allowed to nudge a car as they do in the States pursuits would only go for a few seconds instead of much longer.

Road spikes are only part of the system that is used in the US. Like anything the NSW Govt has only taken a small part of a larger solution to apply to a problem.

TJF I say

[plonky]

Further, you cannot parallel a pursuit, not allowed to get in front or alongside to box them in or set up a road block that doesn't have an escape route.

Just pathetic!

[F6 UTE]

It's a bit sad. What is more dangerous, punting a stolen car off the road at a determined speed and location, in a semi-controlled environment, or letting them barrel around thru red lights and stop signs waiting to kill some innocent ppl in the process...

We know a family that were travelling home after a night out. Parents in front in their own car, sons/daughters in a car behind. Get to a set of lights to see a stolen car ( being chased ) come thumping thru a red light and kill their parents right in front of there eyes..

Protecting the crims again.

[Guest hank]

Further, you cannot parallel a pursuit, not allowed to get in front or alongside to box them in or set up a road block that doesn't have an escape route.

Just pathetic!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, it's just a sh1t isn't it Plonky, it must make you feel like quitting the force.

I can't understand why you can't shoot out their tyres? What about just ramming them from behind?

[turb06]

The problem is now also that some older model easily and frequently stolen vehicles can outperform our police cruisers. It would be nice if that device at the start of 2 fast 2 furious (I know its lame) actually exists, shoot a dart intot he car and it shuts the car down.

Dazza.