2 recent 'alternative' movies

[Guest Gilto]

Lumpen Proletariat

No Comment on that SPECIFIC optinion little boy.At least the others who don't like the Movie or the Man give REASONS presented in a MATURE way.

Was that comment directed at me by any chance??

[Grant]

Was that comment directed at me by any chance??

Think so

Michael Moore has provided more ammo for debate than most people I can think of - he's improved dinner time discussion at my table that's for sure

He does have some valid points but also tends to twist things a fair bit. Ultimately he's a writer with a script who goes out to get evidence that supports his view. If you assumed he was a propoganda machine with the sole purpose of removing Bush from power I don't think you'd be too far wrong! Will be interesting to see what happens if Bush doesn't get back into power - will the movies continue??

Grant

[God666]

Personally I love his movies and books as they are entertainment. But you have to keep a good grip on the facts. He distorts the truth in most instances and is very selective on what he presents. 'Never let the facts spoil a good story' is probably the appropriate line.

He tries to present himself as a journalist however, his sensationalism and poor portrayal of fact lets him down.

Despite all the above, I love to watch his work.

I work for Halliburton, and they are a prime target of his attacks. That doesn't stop me watching his work as I keep a sense of perspective on the truth over the sensationalism.

[Lumpen]

Lumpen Proletariat

No Comment on that SPECIFIC optinion little boy.At least the others who don't like the Movie or the Man give REASONS presented in a MATURE way.

Was that comment directed at me by any chance??

Yes it was Gilto. Purely because of the ' He's a fat boy Nyah Nyah' Mentality, akin to a first grader, not the owner of a fine automobile.

Cheers,

Lumpy

PS:I was often the said 'Fat Boy', so I know how he feels :lol:

[3rdTurbo]

Plonky, quick question, do you have the same disdain for Piers Ackerman or a right wing writer of the similar vein? (Miranda Devine?) Those typica; Right Wing reactionaries that seem to have a little bit of fact with a lot of ideological propoganda, sensationalism and sarcasm thrown in....

Hey Lumpen - I can see that you sway to the left. It's all good.

Being on the right, I would still never advocate what any journalist (including Piers, Miranda et al) reports or supplies a view blindly.

Do you have any specific examples of Piers/Miranda that you felt was propoganda or unsubstantiated?

I have not seen any Mike Moore movies, but I have seen him interviewed in the media. The dude appears to be on a witchhunt. A lot of intelligent people (including other forum members) are stating that he has adopted a simplistic portrayal and misrepresented/ommitted some facts. This can do him no good, if he is genuienly seeking to influence his audience with his concerns.

I do not know of any left wing regime which has managed to increase the prosperity, quality of life (including the environment) and security for all of it's citizens. Left wing regimes typically lean towards prescriptive policy and regularly interfere with the dynamics of society (social engineering). In turn, these methods lead to poor outcomes due to the resultant policy inconsistencies.

Just my 2 cents worth - take the best and leave the rest.

[JJ_Phantom]

Farenheit 911 was the most disgusting movie I have ever seen!

Michael Moore is a disgrace, he should spend more time at Jenny Craig than making sh*t like that!

He can't make movies 'cos he's fat????

I guess P Jackson shouldn't have been allowed to make LOTR either????

[Lumpen]

I guess P Jackson shouldn't have been allowed to make LOTR either????

NO!

NO ONE should've been alowed to make LOTR!

The longest trite-est movie's Ive ever had the misfortune to watch! Even 'Lonsome Dove II-Return to Lonesome Dove' was better!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Watching out for 's now

[plonky]

I certainly disagree with both Piers and Miranda in some respects, but to give them their due, they are very much a minority within the print and visual media because they actually apply commonsense over ideology and bias.

As a matter of fact, Piers has acknowledged on many occasions to me and others that he was an idealistic Left Wing ideologue in his youth, but constant exposure to the real world has placed him more in the 'common sense' mould.

Piers protested in the moratoriums in the 60's. Later her realised how wrong her was.

Remember...the people that we now have as Magistrates, Judges, Politicians, senior Public servants etc, have all come from that 'anti-establishment' era and are now in positions of power.

They are making decisions based on their ideology, not on the current community feeling and as such, they are increasingly outraging the majority.

Why would a union member want and illegal immigrant in detention to be released - this person will probably take the job of a union member, place an extra burden on the taxpayer or perform work where he is not supporting a union and leaving other workers at risk

Because the Union is controlled by Lefty ideologues

Why would an Australian business owner reject a Free Trade agreement that would an economy that could potentially make a financial windfall for both economies...because it would mean that the employees may have to really work for their money and give value for money.

The Media is controlled by Lefty ideologues that can't see beyond their bias.

Mike Moore is the epitomy of Left Wing bias but uses a Right Wing based economy to further his transfer of guilt. Like any propogandist, Moore relies upon natural human emotions to transfer an ideological idea into an emotion, thus he uses guilt, humour and partial fact to put forward HIS version of what is happening.

Perhaps he should show the funerals of victims at the World Trade Centre who were of ALL nationalities and religions who were murdered by fundamentalist Muslim radicals who despise anyone who is not a Muslim....AND THERE IS NO NEGOTIATING OR STOPPING THEM !!

[Lumpen]

Hey Lumpen - I can see that you sway to the left. It's all good.

Being on the right, I would still never advocate what any journalist (including Piers, Miranda et al) reports or supplies a view blindly.

Do you have any specific examples of Piers/Miranda that you felt was propoganda or unsubstantiated?

I have not seen any Mike Moore movies, but I have seen him interviewed in the media. The dude appears to be on a witchhunt. A lot of intelligent people (including other forum members) are stating that he has adopted a simplistic portrayal and misrepresented/ommitted some facts. This can do him good, if he is genuienly seeking to influence his audience with his concerns.

I do not know of any left wing regime which has managed to increase the prosperity, quality of life (including the environment) and security for all of it's citizens. Left wing regimes typically lean towards prescriptive policy and regularly interfere with the dynamics of society (social engineering). In turn, these methods lead to poor outcomes due to the resultant policy inconsistencies.

Just my 2 cents worth - take the best and leave the rest.

Sway to the left? Muah ha ha ha ha! You may have missed some of the 'debates' between (particularily) myself and the Rt.Hon Plonky! Great Fun! Yes, I am a pinko leftie socialist...

Hmmm, I must say that I haven't read much stuff by Piers Ackerman at all, the few pieces I've kinda let go thinking they were a bit radical but as I read the SMH regularily I see and read Miranda Devine's articles quite often.

I can't specifically quote any articles of her BUT I can root around the 'archives' if you want, but the standard vitriolic attacks on any Anti War (Iraq) personality, basically deriding them as mates of Saddam who sanction his slaugterous ways were rather baseless in my eyes!

Hmmm, there aren't many REAL left wing POLITCIANS left in the world let alone Parties or Governments. There are alot purporting to be lefties but not many actually are. The few regeimes that are left are quite hampered by Trade Embargoes and Sanctions, often prescribed by the USA. I can imagine that Cuba could be quite a bustling economy if it wasn't for the trade embargoes that restricted its economy to 10% of its possible size until the fall of the 'Red Russian Empire' when it had NO trading partners left at all!

They do lean towards policies that in some eyes may be viewed as social enginering (and some are, such as the Equal Employment Opportunities Laws) but then again, if you can help your fellow man, why not? I see no reason for the 'Every Man for Himself' belief in todays society!The 'ME FIRST' Mentality.

Peace,

Lumpy

[Lumpen]

I certainly disagree with both Piers and Miranda in some respects, but to give them their due, they are very much a minority within the print and visual media because they actually apply commonsense over ideology and bias.

As a matter of fact, Piers has acknowledged on many occasions to me and others that he was an idealistic Left Wing ideologue in his youth, but constant exposure to the real world has placed him more in the 'common sense' mould.

Piers protested in the moratoriums in the 60's. Later her realised how wrong her was.

Remember...the people that we now have as Magistrates, Judges, Politicians, senior Public servants etc, have all come from that 'anti-establishment' era and are now in positions of power.

They are making decisions based on their ideology, not on the current community feeling and as such, they are increasingly outraging the majority.

Why would a union member want and illegal immigrant in detention to be released - this person will probably take the job of a union member, place an extra burden on the taxpayer or perform work where he is not supporting a union and leaving other workers at risk

Because the Union is controlled by Lefty ideologues

Why would an Australian business owner reject a Free Trade agreement that would an economy that could potentially make a financial windfall for both economies...because it would mean that the employees may have to really work for their money and give value for money.

The Media is controlled by Lefty ideologues that can't see beyond their bias.

Mike Moore is the epitomy of Left Wing bias but uses a Right Wing based economy to further his transfer of guilt. Like any propogandist, Moore relies upon natural human emotions to transfer an ideological idea into an emotion, thus he uses guilt, humour and partial fact to put forward HIS version of what is happening.

Perhaps he should show the funerals of victims at the World Trade Centre who were of ALL nationalities and religions who were murdered by fundamentalist Muslim radicals who despise anyone who is not a Muslim....AND THERE IS NO NEGOTIATING OR STOPPING THEM !!

I dont think the radical right is a minority view in Austrailian Media, it depends on what you read of course and what mood Kerry and Rupert are in when they wake up.

Perhaps adult life has seen him convert to a more 'common sense' mould but perhaps he has been lured away to the 'Dark Side' by comfy furniture, well tailored suits and european cars? :lol:

You can't seriously suggest that the Anti-War Moritorium's during the Vietnam war were 'Wrong'? Are you I know that if I was drafted to fight for an imperialist invading force against a sovereign nation with which I share political idealologies I would've been protesting and would hope to hell all my friends and family were too.

The anti-establishment protestors of the 60's have been and gone in our judicial system now, there is now about two left wing High Court Judges left now. You can scarcely call that an unbiased lot! Especially as most of them have been appointed by John Howard himself

Not being a member of a union I can't comment on how their heirachy acts in regards to illegal immigrants. Personally I can't stand the jailing of children. There are even children BORN in jail, therfore Australian Citizens that haven't done ANYTHING wrong that are locked up. All I call for is that they are processed quickly and fairly, if they're going to be sent home SEND THEM HOME, don't jail them for years. If they're due to be released they're NOT illegal immigrants, let them in!

For the FTA to receieve immediate Bi Partisan Support in the USA there has to be SOMETHING that inhibits Australian Interest while propogating their own.

The Muslim Fundamentalist despise not only anyone who is not a Muslim, but anyone who is not a fundamentalist muslim! The Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims are prime examples! In fact it's just like the Catholics and Protestant's of Christianity!

There is a way of stopping them, RESPECT WHO they are and WHAT they believe them. Do not ridicule the muslim dress or their belief, in the same way that I do not ridicule a Christians belief.

<pffffft, as if THAT will ever happen> It's good to dream but isn't it?

Peace,

Lumpy