turbotom

OK.... so my band did not break as I thought.... but the kevlar lining was completely gone. Too much slippage caused frictional heat, which eventually caused metal to metal scoring of the drum surface. Here's a couple of pics of the 2-4 band which lost its lining, and the resultant drum damage. The drum could have been machined/linished smooth, but I've opted for a new replacement. too much applied torque is the culprit.... around 800+ Nm @ 3000 rpm and this was still with street tyres. More clamping force for the band is required.... or I might have to regrettably reduce torque below 3500 rpm for reliability

The top eight placing is still up for grabs, you know. And with seven rounds to go, the pressure's beginning to show. 12 wins will do it, for a place in the finals: so that'll be tough for a few of the hopefuls. Adelaide, West Coast and Melbourne for sure... And the Bulldogs should win a few to make the top four. But the others to make the finals fame, will need to get cracking and lift their game With 8 teams within reach of the chance, the next few weeks will determine if their fans can dance. The Saints have tough road before them I see But will get the wins so in the finals they'll be. The pies have an easier path to the end, So maybe back them to be there, for VFL to defend. The Swans should do enough for their fans to buy some slabs, but that 8th spot is definitely still up for grabs. Will it be Freo, or Richmond that can sneak in... Or possibly the Cats or the Lions to make a big din. It will be easier to see how it will be, after a few more rounds of AFL footy. tom Go the CROWS!

jimmy, The only real way of measuring the torque is on an engine dyno, where the actual torque moment (rotational force produced by the engine) is measured at a known distance from the centre of rotation. This technique is used to provide the manufacturer's spec.... eg 450 Nm from 2000~5000 rpm The figures of Nm on that table you posted seem far too excessive to be related to typical engine torque. I have no doubt they are torque measurements, but of what and as to how they relate to engine torque, don't know. The technique I provided for calculation using the (kW x 9549.27) / rpm at a given point on your curve is as good as you can derive from your dyno run. When I use my stock power dyno curve to calculate it, I get around 360~400 Nm across the range 2000~5000. Given that I have an auto, that correlates reasonably well with manufacturer's claims, as autos are NOT as efficient as manuals, and there is power loss (and hence lower calculated torque) Like I said.... if you want to be realistic with the torque you have available (compared to the original stock 450 Nm) use the calculation I provided. You have a peak of about 640Nm at 120 kph. If you want a crude calculator from your tractive effort on that dyno chart, multiply all the readings by 0.08 for that curve. Doesn't sound as good as 800Nm, but it is a bit more realistic. tom

You could quote that, but I think it's inflated by about 35%... Like I posted above... your 8000N at 120 kph (4000 rpm) equates to about 640Nm If I used your LS1 mates calculation, my ute is producing in excess of 1000 Nm I think he's uncertain of his facts. (It's a good way of keeping the LS1 boys happy, though , I suppose) tom

You talking race track or drag strip? For the drag strip, these are a street legal radial with soft compound rubber.... M/T ET Street Radials : P275 40R17 Recomended to use 9~11" rim widths, but they will fit on stock 17x8 rims and work good. Now although these tyres have some grooves, they are not very good in the wet. They are designed for drag racing, so have a very large fooprint of contact rubber which will contribute to aquaplaning inthe wet. As for good race track rubber for the road? Not sure. Haven't looked in that area. Whatever you choose though, if it's a good sticky grooved race tyre certified for road use, it won't be cheap. To be honest, I have found the stock Dunlop Sp3000 17's quite a good tyre for grip on my ute..... up until I upgraded with my latest race HP-F tune tom

When you're chasing those last few extra neddies, whether it be for a dyno comp or for racing, the tuner could narrow the safety margin tolerances to extract the highest power. That's generally OK if a consistent quality race fuel is used (like C16) but if tuning with pump gas (with maybe a bit of extra octane booster) the margin could be exceeded on the next tankful of juice. Whilst ping (knock) can be audibly heard , it's usually after the ECU has taken out significant timing and can no longer compensate, leaving the motor vulnerable to detonation and possible failure. The problem is compounded when at the track racing. With a helmet on, there is NO way you can actually hear any knock / ping. Rob (at HP-F) mentioned a device was available for detecting knock, and I did a bit of a search and found this..... knocklite From what I read, it appears they are popular devices with the suped up WRX crowd. Has anyone used one of these at all? I get the impression they have an audio filter with several threshold detection points set at 3 rpm settings. This improves the sensitivity across the rev range. I guess I'm wondering if the unit works well in the XR6T, as the engine audio profile would be significantly different to the flat 4 subie donk. On the other hand, it might be a total crock of shyte, and simply be a level detector with NO audio profiling comparator at all. Like I stated above.... Has anyone used one? seems like a simple addon mod to provide some visual indication of pending problem with fuel quality / tune status under load. tom

there's a number of dealers selling online.... for example: www.tempetyres.com.au Don't know about the quality of goods and services, but they certainly have a good range of packages which seem to be well priced.... 17's 18's 19's and even bigger. worth a look anyway, even if just to pick out a style you like. And they deliver Aust wide for a nominal fee.

When they ask how much torque it has , just tell them there's HEAPS

Mate, these calculations are only a rough guide, cause they are so dependant on the accuracy of both the power and the rpm..... But please use them with a pinch of salt too, as a way of general comparison rather than factual numbers. Its a way of getting a graphical representation of the torque curve, Based on the previous equation though, you have a rising torque curve of about 400 Nm at 88 kph, which peaks at about 640 Nm @ 120 mph (might be about 4000 rpm) and then it trails off to 470 odd Nm at redline. The lower torque (about 400 Nm @ 88 kph ~2900 rpm??) is good for protecting your clutch and trans. Any more and you'd probably be wheel spinning on your rubber anyway. cheers tom

Just adding to my above post, it's best you do your calculations using a spreadsheet like excel. take values from your curve: kW and speed at various points eg every 10kph. convert your speed to rpm (once you determine the conversion factor for your car) then perform the conversion to Nm. Chart the Nm against rpm, and you'll get an idea of what your torque curve looks like. Your greatest "seat in the pants" feeling of accelleration occurs where you are producing max torque, not max power. tom

Why do you make that assumption? Max torque can be where the tuner sets it, especially in a turbocharged car. It is very much determined by boost pressure. My current road and race tunes all produce their max torque at around 3000 rpm, cause that's what's needed to get the lard-arsed ute off the line. The trade off is reliability. tom

An old engineering book I have states that P = T . Angular velocity where P is in watts, T is in Nm, and Angular velocity is in radians/sec This equates out to be T = (P * 9.54927) / rpm The problem with your graph is that power is plotted against velocity (kph) rather than rpm. So there will be variations based on wheel size etc. This is a crude calculation, and I'm not sure how it compares to manufacturer's output torque specs... So forget about the tractive effort (N) and just use the kW @ rpm to determine torque in Nm. Work out what rpm your motor was doing at the specific speed... eg at 104 kph, it may be 3300 rpm. so, 200kW @ 3300 rpm (200 x 1000 x 9.54927)/3300 = 578.74 by comparison, my recent HP-F race tune produces 255 kW at 3350 : 726 Nm Torque is the quantifiable component which contributes to accelleration. It is, unfortunately, the variable which when excessive, also destroys driveline components (eg gearboxes and cv's and axles and diffs, not to mention conrods) tom

I run the APS IC, and have a large 600x110 mm trans cooler positioned in front of it. The trans cooler is a Maxiflow unit, which does not inhibit the airflow much, hence its suitability in front of the IC and radiator. It drops trans temp by 30 degrees C. Adding Nulon to your 98 race map will provide a bit more of a safety margin against potential detonation/ping .... You may gain a few more kW if your ECU has retarded your timing from the custom tune due to previous detection of pinging. Ultimate power is obtained by custom tuning with the octane booster, but it reduces the tolerance of the tune to fuel quality variations. I picked up a very noticeable 20~30kW across the entire rev band by custom tuning with Nulon Pro strength. tom

At big Vic Weekend 2, IceMyButt (formally known as link) one of the distinguished "delegates" from the north, had a pair of 17" stock XR6 rims for sale for $300. Can't remember if he offloaded them? Give him a PM. tom

who said they aren't making good numbers at the track? Heathcote saw several T's pull mid to low 11's. And several 10's have been achieved already in road T's. The trick to pulling good numbers is developing a lot of torque early, and getting the traction .. which is easy enough with a few mods +and Edit and decent tyyes. The problem is doing it without breaking driveline components... (Gearbox/tailshaft/diff/axles/CV joints) This is where the track development will focus over the next few years. tom (just my humble opinion, of course)

thanks for the heads up, mate, but I simply don't believe your accident was due to the cruise control. Nice story for the cops and the insurance company, but the only thing that would have sent the car sideways (even if you had bald tyres) is if you accellerated HARD, and with your 285 rwkw, the auto kicked back and you lost it! Been there, done that! tom ps.. good news is you're OK.

horsesh!t

HEY! FATSO TONY, Who are you calling STUPID!

start putting your $100 per fortnight away for about 6 months. Get the edit with a custom tune at one of the known tune houses. No other mod comes close to giving bang for buck, whilst maintaining great driveability.... AND you'll even get better fuel economy.... no bullsh!t. tom

I should have recovered from celebrating the AFL grand final win by then ( ) so I'll try and make it. Got to get me an 11sec run too! tom

Seeing as this thread is about the 4sp auto , and getting some attention, I'll post here rather than start another one.... In regards to the ongoing problem with the band breaking on the 2-4 drum, has anyone attempted to make a stronger band? I'm told by my trans builder that the bands I have in the rebuilt box at the moment are the strongest available off the shelf. He has suggested it may be possible to get a custom band made with an extra layer(s) of kevlar and carbon fibre...... Have any of the other trans gurus suggested or tried this? The box gets pulled out on monday, and I'll get confirmation on what has let go and what can be improved. I thought about going the path of link/phil/IceMyButt and fitting a modified C9, but that's a bit too costly for me at the moment .... I've got to rebuild my vette motor first. hmmmm.... methinks I'll get it operational with new bands for now, and get the torque tags adjusted. A few guys have stated that the band tends to break whilst cruising, rather than full load. Mine let go on decel after a 3/4 throttle burst. If I can reduce the shift shock on light loads, whilst maintaining the line pressure for full throttle, it may provide better reliability. Can I get some confirmation... Dean? Craig? others. Oh well..... there's some truth in the old saying.... "If You ain't breaking things, You ain't trying hard enough!" tom

Any modification to your exhaust deems it illegal. Unless you get an engineer's certificate to verify the change conforms to all the statutory regulations and requirements. tom

They descended from the north, like the Vikings of old, Down to the Mexican capital, where the air is cold. The chariots were many, some with 2 doors some with 4… They were coming to Melbourne to get a few ponies more. After they’d camped for the night, and stored their steeds, There was a yearning for entertainment, to service their needs. Captain Geea arrived with a spacious ship of steel, Everyone climbed aboard, for a mystery ride with “feel” Now this was to be an extraordinary night… Quite a few of the warriors, saw plenty a good sight. It can not be mentioned, the names of the few, Who partook in the special treatment of the “crew” The ship took port, in the south side of the city In front of a place with images of a kitty. The night went on, into the wee hours of the dawn And the next day did see red eyes, and plenty of yawn. Friday at Calder, was the chance to see Who was the tuner of the quickest T. Would it be Nizpro, HP-F or XTC… Uncertain for all, as the rain-gods decided to pee. The next day offered some sounds and sights to be seen.. The challenge of the chariots, to find a dyno queen The steeds were strapped down, and set ready to go But to everyone’s dismay, the numbers were low. We sought a champion, who could pull the biggest number And with a show of strength, and the sound of thunder.. The dyno chart trace scrambled up to a 400kW peak, the Nizpro powered XLNT6 proved it was no freak. Some looked at old results and said: “How could it be?” “I’ve had bigger dyno charts before! Can’t you see!” And here lies the truth, you be the judge… There’s many ways to make computer numbers fudge. So don’t get caught up in the value you got, But make the comparison with the other lot. The true test has been stated, is at the track When you pull good times, back to back. So it was off to Heathcote, in the T’s and the ‘phoons A chance to see the value in the new race tunes. An unusual named member, had the quickest gear A name that envisages a very cold rear… Icemybutt was quickest, at Eleven three nine, So HP-F gets the credit, for best over the line. I can only summise, that it can only get better, When we next meet for a bigger get together. tom Thanks to everyone who came, and a big thanks to the organisers

well done guys. good times by all. Sorry I piked out.... I was 40 km from Heathcote when I suddenly realised I had a 2-speed Powerglide in the ute I contemplated running it like that, but decided to be thankful it was still driveable and turned around and headed back to Adelaide. So good to meet you all. Now I can put a picture to your names when I'm posting. cheers tom

OK... many years ago, when I fitted a set of alloys to my lowered 73 mitsi galant, the technique to roll the lips of the guards was quite agricultural. A series of hacksaw cuts on the inner lip at 50mm spacing, followed by deft use of a rubber mallet, to fold up each segment. Crude, uncouth, but it worked. If done with care, no cracking of paint occured. What's the current technique used... has anything changed in over 30 years? tom