Is It Really True?

[YOOT]

There is a law about invasion of provacy and I am sure if they tried something this would breach it. Loggin information about someones behaviour without your consent is illegal. Not matter what format it is in.

Just the same as Microsoft can't send me to Jail if I decide to use a pirated version of there software and they know I have it because they spied on my computer with the windows update (which they do). Because that is against the law and they open themselves up for counter lawsuits etc.

Any data logging would be annonymous and for research purposes only. They might llog the data of a car that has blown two gear boxes and has a noisy diff and see if it correlates to high rpm, big clutch dumps etc, and try to work out if there is a pattern to the warrenty claim, or perhaps they want to learn the behaviour of their customers to improve the product for the next model etc.

What they log can not be used against you alone.

[mickq]

There is a law about invasion of provacy and I am sure if they tried something this would breach it. Loggin information about someones behaviour without your consent is illegal. Not matter what format it is in.

Just the same as Microsoft can't send me to Jail if I decide to use a pirated version of there software and they know I have it because they spied on my computer with the windows update (which they do). Because that is against the law and they open themselves up for counter lawsuits etc.

Any data logging would be annonymous and for research purposes only. They might llog the data of a car that has blown two gear boxes and has a noisy diff and see if it correlates to high rpm, big clutch dumps etc, and try to work out if there is a pattern to the warrenty claim, or perhaps they want to learn the behaviour of their customers to improve the product for the next model etc.

What they log can not be used against you alone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rubbish...that is not true.

As an example, every single Expensive Daewoo logs the G forces applied to the car at the time the airbag is deployed. All perfectly legal.

There is no law that says you cant log information on the use of a car.

Microsoft CAN send you to jail for a pirated version if they want. They choose not to. Dont confuse that with them not being able to. Its simply not cost effective to take individual users to court.

If MS wanted to get you, they would simply do exactly what they do with dealers selling dodgy versions: they apply to a court for an Anton Pillar order. This gives Microsoft THE RIGHT to storm into your house or office, and seize anything that indicates it may have illegal software including CD's, PCs and so on. The initial step would be to use an Anton Pillar order on your ISP (as they would have your IP address from when you tried to connect to Windows Update) and require the ISP to disclose the users details. Then they raid your house.

Simple. Legal. And they currently do this frequently in Australia and overseas but currently only on people running businesses that either sell/provide or else just use dodgy versions. They dont even have to have the cops with them when they enter your house.

I think you need to do a little more research into common practices and the law before you go making statements like the one in your post, because quite simply they are wrong. The only instance where they are likely to be illegal is if they are taping your conversations or videotaping you in the car. Another grey area would be using GPS to track where you have been. These could be argued as being surveillance. Logging your speed etc is not, just as a radar detector blasting all cars on a road with radiation in order to detect their speed is not considered surveillance.

[YOOT]

There is a law about invasion of provacy and I am sure if they tried something this would breach it. Loggin information about someones behaviour without your consent is illegal. Not matter what format it is in.

Just the same as Microsoft can't send me to Jail if I decide to use a pirated version of there software and they know I have it because they spied on my computer with the windows update (which they do). Because that is against the law and they open themselves up for counter lawsuits etc.

Any data logging would be annonymous and for research purposes only. They might llog the data of a car that has blown two gear boxes and has a noisy diff and see if it correlates to high rpm, big clutch dumps etc, and try to work out if there is a pattern to the warrenty claim, or perhaps they want to learn the behaviour of their customers to improve the product for the next model etc.

What they log can not be used against you alone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rubbish...that is not true.

As an example, every single Expensive Daewoo logs the G forces applied to the car at the time the airbag is deployed. All perfectly legal.

There is no law that says you cant log information on the use of a car.

Microsoft CAN send you to jail for a pirated version if they want. They choose not to. Dont confuse that with them not being able to. Its simply not cost effective to take individual users to court.

If MS wanted to get you, they would simply do exactly what they do with dealers selling dodgy versions: they apply to a court for an Anton Pillar order. This gives Microsoft THE RIGHT to storm into your house or office, and seize anything that indicates it may have illegal software including CD's, PCs and so on. The initial step would be to use an Anton Pillar order on your ISP (as they would have your IP address from when you tried to connect to Windows Update) and require the ISP to disclose the users details. Then they raid your house.

Simple. Legal. And they currently do this frequently in Australia and overseas but currently only on people running businesses that either sell/provide or else just use dodgy versions. They dont even have to have the cops with them when they enter your house.

I think you need to do a little more research into common practices and the law before you go making statements like the one in your post, because quite simply they are wrong. The only instance where they are likely to be illegal is if they are taping your conversations or videotaping you in the car. Another grey area would be using GPS to track where you have been. These could be argued as being surveillance. Logging your speed etc is not, just as a radar detector blasting all cars on a road with radiation in order to detect their speed is not considered surveillance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for that, I'll make sure no to pirate my ECU or connect my ute to the internet then LOL!

[Blonk]

I didn't know life existed below 5000 rpm....

Sometimes I dont even let the clutch out till I get to 5500

[Lumpen]

Rubbish...that is not true.

As an example, every single Expensive Daewoo logs the G forces applied to the car at the time the airbag is deployed. All perfectly legal.

There is no law that says you cant log information on the use of a car.

Microsoft CAN send you to jail for a pirated version if they want. They choose not to. Dont confuse that with them not being able to. Its simply not cost effective to take individual users to court.

If MS wanted to get you, they would simply do exactly what they do with dealers selling dodgy versions: they apply to a court for an Anton Pillar order. This gives Microsoft THE RIGHT to storm into your house or office, and seize anything that indicates it may have illegal software including CD's, PCs and so on. The initial step would be to use an Anton Pillar order on your ISP (as they would have your IP address from when you tried to connect to Windows Update) and require the ISP to disclose the users details. Then they raid your house.

Simple. Legal. And they currently do this frequently in Australia and overseas but currently only on people running businesses that either sell/provide or else just use dodgy versions. They dont even have to have the cops with them when they enter your house.

I think you need to do a little more research into common practices and the law before you go making statements like the one in your post, because quite simply they are wrong. The only instance where they are likely to be illegal is if they are taping your conversations or videotaping you in the car. Another grey area would be using GPS to track where you have been. These could be argued as being surveillance. Logging your speed etc is not, just as a radar detector blasting all cars on a road with radiation in order to detect their speed is not considered surveillance.

I do think that the point YOOT was trying to get across is that the Microsoft would have to BREAK the law (as a private entity NOT a government branch) in order to enforce the law. An 'Anton Pillar Order' is a very serious legal proceeding/document and as it is applied for in upmost secrecy the applicants have to disclose ALL information and evidence, even if it is detrimental to their case.

Where Anton Pillar's have been served in Australia recently, especially in regards to Sharmann Networks, File Sharing, Bittorrents and companies such as Swiftel and Telstra (A case of Intellectual Theft) they have been granted, I gather, when the evidence is easily and freely available. IE-Supernova and Kazzaa etc.This is similar to your example of someody selling pirated copies. These copies can be brought 'On the Street' and can be freely and "legally" obtained.

I find it hard to imagine that a Supreme Court judge would agree to a Anton Pillar when the major evidence is obtained by illegal means. Ie:Q-How do you know they are doing illegal activity? A-Oh, we used illegal activity.

As a note, IF you are served with an 'Anton Pillar Order' an attempt too, or actually destroying what they are after (Ie-Hard Drives or CD's etc) can see you be held in Contempt of Court.

Cheers,

Lumpy

PS:This is only MY understanding.

[YOOT]

that's what I was getting at - cheers!

[Guest FatBAt]

So does this mean that you have to tell yer tuner "oh and...can yer keep it under 5000 rpm on the dyno mate...." I think not...

Cheers

[Blonk]

I understand, but I may be wrong, The only logging that occurs is the last few points being monitored, maybe a hundred, so in the event of the battery being pulled, a short circuit, fatal collision, engine blows, the ECU or a human can see what the car was doing prior to the fault/ termination of the plant. To data log is an external process similar to what the LS1 guys are doing. Dont know for sure but my dealer has never mentioned the fact that I do it a lot