HSE2

Porsche won but the turbo gets 3rd. Great result.

Me------- I know nothing. But if I had to guess and that would be a guess based on no factual information I may have come across, and it certainly wouldn't be by asking any FPV person a question like "if you had to guess how far away a GTHO might be?" I might say about 2 years.

A little bird told me we have a bit of a wait and it is a bit longer than June for the GTHO

Mr Walker I believe you have hit the nail on the head. I think we (ford people) have indeed got some history confused with what previous GTs had over the other cars in the range. I guess time is going to have that affect. I however do agree with the total package situation, and without a drive I guess this is out on a limb, but this is the GTs biggest shortcoming for me. I have to trust what I was told and I certainly trust my XR8 drive impression. The Herald Sun has a two-page GT drive impression one with JB at the wheel on the Great Ocean Road. It reads very well. I won't argue with what the press are going to say or claim, but you better believe I am going to be watching what they have to say with great interest. I reckon I could write a series 2 review right now 18 months early and get very close to what the scribes will claim. I made a stupid comment when I first came to this site. Went along the mines that comparing the turbo and the XR8 was a stupid exercise, counter productive to Fords interest. To a lesser degree that is still right but I got it wrong.

I understand completely Charlie. I forget the exact wording but supposedly the FPV range is a step up over the donor vehicle in all aspects. I, like you can't see it, at least no in a way I had imagined. The rear of the pursuit is a perfect example. I was disappointed about the dropping of the gauges but thought fair enough not many cars have them anymore. When I walked around the show I was surprised just how many makers were using this feature to make a designation of sportiness over the base model including stinking HSV of all people, something Ford used to do and as far as I am concerned, a GT tradition. Don't want to harp but the deletion on the premise you don't need it, and lets face it the oil gauges we have had aren't something you could rely on, but how do they explain the starter button! Its not useful with the exception it kinda follows the race theme and yes Aston use it. If they develop the system to the point where the ignition key is redundant then great Mondie has a good point. I got the impression the suspension tune suffered because of cost, and to be fair what they have delivered across the BA spectrum something had to give. Maybe this is the only way they could have got the product to the market, I don't have the answers. Usually I would be sitting down and either talking to or writing a letter to FPV about my thoughts. This time I won't be doing that. My understanding is that some of the things I am less than satisfied with have come from the very top. I can't bring myself to make a statement that is going to be thought of as ungrateful. Viewing BA in its entirety we have come along way and they deserve praise for that. But I won't be buying FPV until such time that there is a real distinction in terms of interior appeal and more importantly a more cohesive front-end suspension tune. Just out of interest what reaction did you get from FF?

I can relate to that completely. The days of boring holes are over for me too. Their logic just escapes me that’s all. Owning a GT is certainly my dream has been ever since I was able to discern how important the XY GTHO was in Fords performance history. I guess we are spoilt. If the turbo wasn’t here, this thread wouldn't exist. Setting aside emotion, the new kid on the block is a real head kicker. I can't justify the extra dosh myself and the turbo profile looks fine in any window I look out of. Thanks for listening

The one point that was stressed upon me was that no two cars are the same, that and the fact the GT has done 13.8. For me the difference between 13.8 and 14.23 isn't a factor. If it is that critical to get the launch right then I am better thinking 14.2something is the go. I am not disappointed with that if the goal posts were shifted to a whole new level in every aspect. I could be wrong but I believe the FPV notion is to provide a sizable improvement in all areas of the performance spectrum. Total Vehicle Dynamics was one term that was used at a very early stage. People will have to make up their own mind based on their own beliefs and values as to whether the GT range will live up to the expectations placed upon it.

Oh, all right but your only going to laugh at me :( Let me say straight up that the GT doesn't disappoint me in the way you think. Much of what I am about to say is on another level removed from the car itself. That’s my real objection although some styling cues are either take it or leave it. As most might know I own a 98 Au XR8 that has had a few modifications. In Expensive Daewoo terms I would be a HSV buyer, so it was a great day for me when the T series was launched. That was everything I wanted in a car, right down to the relationship with firstly Tickford and secondly the workshop/dealer. This is exactly what I had been advocating for ages. I liked the understated look, but I also like the body kit. To this day I still think there is a place for the understated high performance Falcon and looking at the GT I think Barra is the model to do it. GT looks Its ok. I don't think it is as good as T3 as far as kits go. I love the front, especially the use of mesh and the logo, I hope they retain that element for good and not throw it away like they seem to like doing from time to time. The side doesn't work for me but its ok I could live with it. I completely understand the look and the relationship they are trying to achieve. Where I have a problem is when you follow this logic and desire through with other elements of the concept. Overall the GT -P looked high and narrow, bit slab sided to me, but maybe that was just the turn table The rear is about the same as the side profile. I actually like T3 better. Barra is a conservative design trying to look aggressive in an understated way. It ok The interior I just can't get excited about this no matter how hard I try. There must be something wrong with me. We have a tacho that reads to 8000 but the limiter is set to 6000 We have a speedo that goes up to 280 but the car is limited to 250 We have a fancy graphic,which is ok but doesn't really add anything over the XR graphic And we have a starter switch that glows red before you start it. Guys don't take this the wrong way but HSV have rubbed off in all the wrong ways. The old Tickford screed dictated that EVEY feature had to be functional and have a purpose. With models like the GT it is nearly inevitable that they have a "gimmick" to separate it from the lower models. Just on this point. If you are following a racecar theme and spirit, it astonishes me that ancillary gauges have been omitted for the ignition button. Now this is just I. ok. When I go for a drive I am looking for a connection with the firstly the car, secondly the road and thirdly the environment. I get that information through feedback. With the car I want as much feedback as I can get. This to me enhances my repour with the car. Oil pressure oil temp, tyre pressures, ambient temperature, voltage, diff temp, transmission temp and anything else you might want to mention. You don't have to tell me I don't need to know this info, but to me this is more in keeping with Fords GT tradition and certainly Tick ford’s tradition. It follows the V8 theme, I mean telemetry to the driver and the team is the most important aspect of racing and on the road, communicating to the driver what is happening is my preferred "gimmick". This would separate the models in a real way. When I walked around the other performance cars at the show, Ford has gone against the trend. Even an adaptable red line like the M5 would be better than the ignition switch and it would follow the Barra tradition of fancy lighting J I learnt alot while I was at the show. I got to talk to all sorts of Ford people. Some might remember that Go auto mentioned the GT ran a different damper. Well it doesn't, it will do but it doesn't have that yet. Future model will run a different set up to the six cylinder cars. Again some of the things I have picked up and comment on, differences between the Turbo and the XR8, most people don't find. They were very surprised I found what I did when many people inside Ford couldn't . I wasn't complete right but I was that close that it deosn't matter. (Incert lots of damper talk here) I think you will find that comparisons on both cars are going to come down to individual insight. I note today that the SS beat the XR8 in the Australian. Given that the GT and the XR8 are identical, for the time being anyway, it isn't likely I would find the GT a better drive than the current yardstick. This site is dedicated to that yardstick and for me does a better job of being the driver’s car. I can’t quote what the suspension person thinks is the better car but lets just say we didn’t argue about much on the day.

Sorry Ross I haven't replied a bit earlier but I wanted to give this question a bit more thought. The short answer is I won't be buying a new Ford this time round. At the show I was fortunate enough to talk to some people in the know about my drive impressions between the Turbo and the Xr8. I came away very satisfied about my summation of what was going on (head nearly didn’t fit in the cab) :D I will send you a PM about the rest because quite frankly I find you can't tell the truth on matters like this without someone getting their nose out of joint.

Very interesting day today. Just back from the MMS and for me this is the first time I have seen the FPV cars in the flesh. I had some rather strong opinions before today and at the end of it I still hold those opinions. No use going on with it though. I really hoped I could get hold of a FPV powertrain person but I settled for the suspension and chassis guy. I had a great conversation and learnt a lot.

I will try and put a different perspective on it. I am very pleased to read about the improvements to the suspension in the GT, I think it probably is the best car, but is it the best value. I will get to see it in the flesh tomorrow and will be in a better position to comment The answer to that is going to be different from person to person. I must admit I got an SMS message from an XR8 owning mate saying "XR8 and GT no better than the turbo" I think this comes about because these people were expecting or hoping to see sub 6 and 14 second performance indicators. I am not suggesting they aren't possible but I am saying the V8s are too close to the turbo for the liking of some. For some people that is a bad thing and they will see it as a failure. Carpoint have reader feedback on their site if anyone is interested. When the XR6 was king of Fords hill, many V8 people stayed away from Ford altogether. It will be intersting to see if the same thing happens this time with the option of the turbo in the line up. These same people only came back when ford established a distinctive margin between the 8 and 6.

great pictures. looks like a great day!

After what I have said about the SS and the XR8, I am a little surprised by the article but certainly not shocked. Higher speeds should show up the deficiencies in the Expensive Daewoo geometry, but normal people aren’t going to go that far. On one hand I believe the rolling times support my suggestion the XR8 didn't feel as responsive as the turbo or the SS. They affirmed my position on refinement over the SS, and that has played a huge role in the overall outcome, but glossed over the front-end response in the twisty stuff like in switchbacks, something that other articles have noted. "The Xr8s steering is firmer than a regular falcons, but it feels a little light and lacking in road feel after sampling the Holden’s helm" - A further point that influences my comments and something I prioritised in my enjoyment of driving and in the comments I have made. Never thought I would see the day where the Expensive Daewoo was a noted winner in this area. You really only have two inputs of connection with the car, those being the steering wheel and the seat. This is what tells you what is going on. This would be the worst SS article in Vy form by a substantial margin. They even go as far to suggest the clubbie looks better then the SS. Hmmmmmm. I think if I were die-hard Expensive Daewoo guy I would be a little questionable over some of the comments. If you read back through other VY SS articles we see that dreaded consistency issue. Different drivers over different road types will give you this situation. That’s where you have to draw a line down the centre and say that’s where the truth lies. In some ways it was a much narrower conclusion than one might expect from wheels. But this is the point of reviews. I have said before that the road surface makes a huge difference in your interpretation of what is going on underneath you, and it is rare that you can treat a car like what wheels have done to get the separation of the SS over the clubbie. They aren’t going to take it round the block and back to the dealership, they are going to punish the car beyond the limits that 90% plus owners will ever take it. In normal circumstances you just wouldn't find that distinction, which is why many don't feel the HSV'S of this world are worth the extra. That’s the difference and that is why drive impression and reports of the mags are so import. It is all well and good to say drive it for yourself and make up your own mind but these reviews provide a balance you will find for yourself if confronted with the same conditions. I think the SS is better than they have said in the big picture, but they have enforced the view I have had, that the Ford turbo is the best all round performance package on the market today. The only winner here is ford.

I think it is pretty good speculation myself. The thing that struck me with my test drive of the XR8 was it seemed to lack the responsiveness of the turbo or my car, especially when moving away, from say 70-90 kph. It is interesting that wheels in gear acceleration of all the Ford V8s is no where near as good as say the turbo and in fact I don’t think much better than any of the AU XR8s or T series and this just can’t be right. I never expected, and don’t accept the actually result is as much as they say. I am tending to think along the same lines

The wheels article sheds more light on the performance issue. Like I expected they did try rather hard to improve what they call a disappointing mid 14 time. Read the article and you will see where I am coming from. Over two days and in different climates they got the time down to 14.23. They say no better than 14.5 in temperatures of mid to high 30s while the next a 10 degree drop produced the 14.2.

great edition guys -don't go home with out it

Does anyone else think it needs more "macho" or agression in the design? Again I think the wheels are the offending items, but what about the claims about the interiors! Sounds interesting!

Gt review Territory information Great Xr8 comp against the SS and the HSV but the Gt article is the bomb.

"The GT s secret is the way it goes, sounds, steers, stops,rides and handles. A class act in every sense, the Gt plays its part for real. And raises the bar once again. It's in the genes, y'see" end quote from wheels what more can you say!

The country-driving element is more important to me, one day probably end up killing me but that is what I enjoy. The traffic light element is important to. But more in the way you pull up along side someone and you instantly know, just the look between two people. You know he knows, and he know he knows you know. I want the car to do the talking so to speak and right now perhaps the FPV does speak loud enough to get that message across. But then again it isn't my primary objective, just a desire to shut my mates up. It s been 4 long years and I swore the next Ford I would accomplish my goal. You know when I started work there were no performance fords in the car park now there are 5 of us. Only one R8 to go! He is young and stupid (3 years younger than me) and parks his car where everyone has to walk past it. If it means I have to get up at 1 in the morning, before I am finished I will take the parking spot and stick it right up his clacker. He is going to have to walk past my car and he is going to know, if you catch my drift. Right now its like you can have a little of everything from each car. The turbo probably gives the most and I relate to what your wife is saying and I have no one to tell me. It’s just this little voice eating away. The decision is too hard so maybe that means the time isn't right. I think you know when something is right for you instantly with out much thought, instinct if you like. For me, and this is going to sound naff. It would come down to the standard turbo or the GT-P. Money wise they are worlds apart but again each offers excellent value I believe I can justify. The GTP has to be the value buy of the eight cylinder cars, well I think it is. I get my features and options that appeal to me, my idea of what a GT should be. What can you say about the turbo that hasn't been said! The comparisons I haven't driven the Xr range in auto, I have the XT so I have no reason to doubt that the Xr range would be any different. Strangely enough the FPV auto could redefine this segment completely. I wouldn't mention the Ford auto and the Expensive Daewoo auto in the same sentence (this time excepted) Can you remember one guy on LS1 saying he felt disappointed with the way the LS1 felt in normal conditions, something like not being special. That is the way all LS1 have felt to me. Like you have to work to find the excitement, where as my car just deliver enjoyment, noise and so straight from the time the key was tuned. My experience with the VY was the first time I have sat in an LS1 car and felt I had something special under me. It was an auto, so in many ways I am not comparing apples with apples, but I like the agility this car had in the front end compared to the dull experience the XR8 gave. Last time I drove the 6 speed Expensive Daewoo I kept getting the wrong gear But I know what you mean, the manual really shows up the deficiency in the torque band and that isn't am enjoyable experience. But of the two transmissions I have always reckoned the auto was the worst. There is nothing more infuriating then fuzzy logic that turns out to be just that.

I agree about resale to a point. I separate the turbo from the rest of the range. The turbo is the only car to really escape the weight issue, and has established itself as the performance bang for buck king. I don't think it could be beaten in the resale even with the GT badge. I think, and I guess we will know more tomorrow, that the Xr8 and maybe the Gt range in series one guise will always carry the weight stigma. You can see what is coming with Series 2 a mile off, and if it does, the models most hurt resale wise will be the heaviest where perhaps the performance mightn't be to market expectations. CDAA. Yeah of the net write ups doing the rounds I guess I am closest to your thoughts although you did find some faults with the Holden’s I didn't experience. That doesn't surprise me in as much I really think it is a lottery as to what you end up with quality wise. I tested the auto SS, and I know for a fact that that box is mentally challenged, but the example I had I couldn't get it to perform it logic melt down. Although I know it hasn't been fixed I can only comment on what I found on the day, and as a package it was mighty impressive. And true I guess the age might be a factor. Common sense tells me to go out and buy the Turbo. The GT write up sounds like it address every issue I had with the XR range. I had a client in with me today. I took off from the lights and short shifted straight to 3rd at 20ks with no more than 1200 rpm. He couldn't believe it. To me it is second nature. Perhaps this old dog needs to learn some new tricks. Right now I am thinking do nothing. FPV aren't quite there. I am immensely happy with 14.23 if it is something I can do day in day out with one on board. That for me is a big thumbs up. At the same time the little voice is saying the GTHO can't be far away. I want to be in the best position to get that car. My friends have GTS and I fear we won't be able to get away from the” your 290 will only match the 260 HSV KWs”. Call me small-minded but time has got to me. I want to put them away. I want to do it day in day out and straight from the factory floor. If I want to achieve that I have to go HO. I have time, I can wait. I really hope there is a clue at the show. I know the GTHO and the FPV turbo made the paper again today so who knows

I have been amazed at the response these cars have got. There are an army of supporters jumping to defend the time the GT did, and they bite real easy too. I seriously doubt the Gt will improve by much. I have no doubt that on the right day with the right conditions and the right driver a quicker time would be achieved, but the people arguing this point have failed to see the point. Maybe a 13.9 might fly. But I bet it won’t be easy on the drive line to get. I want to know what the car is likely to do as an average. A time where the owner doesn't have to get it all right to prove a point. To me 14.23 is a representative time. What are you going to do? argue I only had 3/4 tank instead of the extra person. As an all round package it sound brilliant. It looks to address my complaint about the XR8 front end and it sounds a touch more drivable than the turbo. But that is me. It doesn't happen all that often that the mags do improve the times. In fact with AU 1 they went backwards. Unless the conditions were wet I can’t think of too many tests where there has been a gain of half a second that the followers are proclaiming is possible. I would like to know exactly how 13.7 or 8 was achieved in testing and if it was a full production model and not some mule. The fact is that the press cars don't stay on the list long enough for the best to be ever achieved especially where 8 cylinders is concerned. I suspect the GT won't be able to improve enough for some to ever justify the extra cost over the turbo, and I would agree with that However for me, I would consider the XR8 now that I know the front end has a better set up. I would either change the XR8 or just buy the GT.

Certainly sounds promising. Wonder how the testing times will stack up in the real world?

Nice pics Chris-Thanks

Not sure how many of these would be termed common. A fair percentage has to do with the dealership predelivery. Certainly a long list though