Crabon Tax , Carbon Tax

[GOLDIE]

one package the nbn is that amount so you better rethink.

Ian

[GOLDIE]

As much as I dislike the current government for their populist ideals and the blatant bullsh*t etc. we have to be realistic, Australia was and still is in a pretty bloody good position financially. Nobody would have had an issue with the stimulus had it not been rorted.

Yes there are a billions in debt but we are not bankrupt...there is no problem in servicing the debt so that's just hysteria.

Back to the topic it all comes down to these morons (and all politicians suffer the same problem) implementing what they feel are warm and fuzzy ideas that the electorate thinks they need as a self-serving prophecy to keep themselves in power.

Nobody with half a brain cannot see that this is a complete waste of time and money given Australia's insignificant contribution to carbon output in global terms, and that's even before you visit the debate about man-made climate change.

But Joolya needs to keep the greens and independents (that realise this will be their last term) happy or she'll be out of The Lodge - that's all it comes down to.

The only way anything will change is to bring back the days of politicians with balls...not nansy pansy fckn pushovers that are too scared to actually make decisions that matter and govern.

bring back joe and howard.

Ian

[Zerosignal]

one package the nbn is that amount so you better rethink.

Ian

Paid for with bonds, with the NBN to essentially pay itself off with its profits.

[GOLDIE]

what profits at this stage it looks like being a white elephant they dont even have a buissness plan for it so how can they say it will make a profit.

Back to the tax the same thing they go we will bring in this tax but not one of them can say how much and what it is going to cost you and I every day.

Why anounce something that they have no idea about.

They are trying to hold on to power by bowing to the greens and independents.

She is a weak as piss.

Ian

[dule]

tab pollution should be looked at from the per capita point of view. I have no idea where we rank in this regard (could find out but feel kinda bad wasting even more work time) but we can't say "we as a country don't pollute much" therefore we don't need to do anything.

If in fact we don't pollute much per capita than I agree we shouldn't do anything drastic.

[Zerosignal]

Again incorrect Ian, there is a publicly available buisness plan for the NBN from NBN co. Buisness Plan read away its all in there. The only person calling it a white elephant is Abbot and co. The reason why there is no word on the amount of tax is because the climate change committee is still debating it, pollies always announce something before its brought in to gauge public perceptions. This has nothing to do with trying to hold onto power and everything to do with trying to win back the far left that deserted Labor to join the greens, rather foolish imo as the far left will stay with the greens anyway but the middle class will leave in droves if this hits the hip pocket.

[dule]

Since you mentioned the hip pocket, wonder how many people would actually believe in global warming and be prepared to do something about it if it wasn't hitting the hip pocket.

Wonder what the ratio of those who genuinely don't believe in it due to scientific research compared to those who don't believe in it because it's just inconvenient and will affect their lifestyle...

[tab]

Dule - #12 per capita according to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

#16 in volume or 1.28% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

I'm not convinced that man-made climate change is real as there are too many people with agendas and money to be made involved in the process, but regardless I do believe that we cannot keep pumping the atmosphere full of sh*t and not expect any adverse effects in terms of flora/fauna etc at the very least.

But I can't see how taxing something is going to stop it, it'll just shift the cost to the consumer. Classic example is the excise on grog and cigarettes, that has f' all of an affect on consumption.

[Zerosignal]

Classic example is the excise on grog and cigarettes, that has f' all of an affect on consumption.

I gave up smoking a pack a day 8 months ago when the price got over 20 bucks a pack, ive never looked back either Jack Daniels on the other hand still lives here.

[Zerosignal]

I don't think theyd believe it dule but at the same time I doubt there'd be all this outrage if it cost nothing, it doesn't help when you have the opposition and the right wingers screaming out your bills will all go up x amount of dollars before the actual rate of taxation is even announced, I want clear and calm debate on this, how much will it cost, what are the expectations of the tax, who will qualify for rebates, what will be exempt and in the event it doesn't work as intended what then?