Which Bike To Get?

[NATHOON]

The 07 comes with a big whipps bash plate

[turtle33]

You've blown your credibility out of the window by saying a 250f is harder to ride. You do have to ride them harder, but they are easier to do so on. I can go harder for longer on my 250f than on any 450 Ive had or ridden (my lap times are faster too. They don't wear you out and because of their mild power delivery you can use more of the bike's power.

Actually its you that has no idea. Mate my comments are from the perspective of a beginner-intermediate rider, your's on the the other hand is from YOUR perspective,by your comments and writing, you seem to rate your self as bit of a gun. KTM would have to be the worst bike you could possibly recommend a newbie for BUSH riding. Even if you hadn't told me what bike you rode, I would of picked it from your comments, the moment you critisise a KTM every KTM rider goes up in arms. So go back and re-read what I wrote Because I rate KTM as one of my top 3 race bikes ever. Re the 250f, again, how many newbies do you know that have pin point throttle/ clutch control (your ok because your a gun) none I bet. So go and re think your "blinded by orange" view before you make a complete tool of your self. Thanks for the attack on my cred too, I have owned more than a few ktm's in my time and to date I haven't paid for one, so my cred's ok thanks. Im actually considering the 250f right now.

(

Your comments on KTM brakes and steering being crap would also indicate you have little knowledge of the brand.

FFS every KTM rider I know has either fitted a dampner and or offset clamps FOR THE BUSH.

All modern bikes have great brakes that work great, but what most people don't notice on the KTMs, Huskies,Bergs, Gas Gas, etc, they have far larger adjustment ranges and any sponginess or snappiness in the brakes can be removed.

Did you read what 2 of my current bike were or did you just see red, I mean orange and go on the attack. Mate my gg brakes are leaps and bounds ahead of any ktm brakes I have ever tried. Every ktm I have had, had to have the cluch pumped prior to riding it because it bleeds it self down, not a big prob but a prob none the less.

Also, the KTM steering is widely regarded as one of the sharpest around (I do agree they are competition orientated

Go back and read wher this guy wants to ride. I'll give you a hint, it aint on the track.

but as I said earlier, they are very suceptable to adjustments, and have a much larger range of adjustment than most other bikes on the market. Also, since 2005, the famous KTM head shake at high speed has ben pretty much removed.

mate I rode an 07 525 on the week end, no it aint.

I like most bikes on today's market as they can all suit any rider when set up correctly

Sound like a line out ADB (also sounds like your bible), Have you ridden a tm300? if so how would you set it up for a total gumbie. Again I will help you, no more than you can set an xr400 up to be competitive in any isde event, different bikes for different situations, I, unlike you read the first post and answered it, not just shoved the KTM is the best thing since sliced bread line down his throat.

. I just get annoyed when I hear flippant comments.

You and me both, hence my reply.

You'll find that the Jap bikes tend to come out with a middle of the road (universal) set up, while the Euro bikes have many more adjustments and need to be set up to suit each rider. And your comments on bottom end??? On the 250f, a quick re-jet fixes that and all 250fs have low bottom ends anyway.

so if you buy it, you have to fix it to ride in the bush?

On the 450s and 525s, they have about the smoothest, linear and consistant power deliveries in the market. In fact, their top ends are lacking compared to the rest of the market.

you ridden a GG or sherco lately, you got no idea bout linear or smooth.

With your comments on the rider abilities, you seem to misunderstand that club level clubman and state/national level are completely different. The big flaw in your comments obout the rider's abilities is the inclusion of both main magazine editors. Shannon Warner is most certainly a genuine, club level clubman rider, Andy Wiggan barely even rates as a trail hack.

WTF is your point? Dont sit there and tell me mags such as ADB arn't driven by the advertising dollar. Go to ballards site and read his full letter to them about the coverage of the 4 day in NZ, he wasn't praising it like his letter read in print. I personaly know more than a few jernos/ editors of some bike mags so I got some idea of whats what.

Overall, I agree that a good rider on a crap bike will flog a crap rider on a good bike anyday and that it is important for riders not to get on a bike they can't handle.

The only well thought out line in your post back.

next time take the time to read what is written before you go on the attack (actually dont worry about it all one eyed ktm riders are the same)

Edited 05/04/07 10:38 AM by turtle33

[tmac450]

next time take the time to read what is written before you go on the attack (actually dont worry about it all one eyed ktm riders are the same)

I did read it.

If your read my previous posts, you'd see my recommendations were either DRZ, XR400 or KLX.

You were the one slamming KTMs with what seems like an uneducated point of view. I must be one eyed because I have yet to ride any current dirt bike with 'sh*t house' brakes as you say. At no time did I say KTM was the be all and end all, but I was defending them against your comments which aren't entierly acurate.

I do own orange, but do not see orange. I like all bikes, I really like the current WRs and CRFs but found the latest KTM was cheaper and suited me better.

I agree that the mags are commercially based and ADB certainly seems to love KTM. I also agree with GBs comments on the 4 day (something I have argued with Andy Wiggan about in the past, but he seems to have his own agenda). The comments were based on your comments that the 'clubman' riders were better than they made out, I simply said that Wigan and Warner were certainly no better than clubman riders. You also said that some of the clubman riders in the tests were good C Graders or mid pack B graders, that's exactly what a 'Clumban' class rider should be. Pro, A, B and C grades are for MX. In enduro it is Pro, Expert and Clubman, therefore B & C riders pretty much have to ride clubman. Also, I have seen some A grade motorcrossers get hosed by clubmans riders in enduros, some riders don't adapt.

You don't seem to understand that a beginner rider could get themselves into more trouble on a 450 than a 250f.

I am no gun by any means, but I have been riding and competing for a long time. I think I have a pretty good idea what's out there.

You need to pull your head in and carefully read posts before you fly off.

[turtle33]

The Yamahas are good with the 450 or 250 fs being the pick of the lot. With dirt bikes, bigger isn't better and at your skill level you'll go better on something that's easier to ride. Look at the type of riding you want to do. If it's tight trails or track work then a 250 f is the go. More open trails then look at a 450. Electric start is also a must.

not one mention of the DRZ here, knowing full well he hasn't ridden years, you recommend 2 full on enduro bikes.

so you entirely slam me, stating that I have no cred etc is because I rate ktm brakes as crap. Ok I will conceed that sh*t was a little harsh, I will re phase "KTM brakes are far from the best brakes available on the latest and greatest bikes " So get over it . Re the comment of there clubman etc, most beginners etc who read ADB etc ASSUME clubman are gumbies of similar level to themselves, that's my point about the tests , all the riders are at the very minnium good to great BUSH riders. The 450 vs the 250 debate was your doing, u suggested one as a suitable beginers bike, I never suggested a 450 , but I did state that he may be able to find a GG450 for 6.5k. FACT show me a 250f that isn't rated as an enduro weapon. Fact not one of these bikes would come even close to being as suitable for the BUSH for a beginner as the drz/klx. Fact every 250f I have ridden in the last few years will eat a drz in any comp event, but this isn't what was asked of us by any one. You did concede in later post that the xr400 or the drz's are good for the bush. Again ,just about every heated discussion about dirt bikes usually ends up in a mines bigger/better than yours, and almost every time its KTM VS the world. Why are KTM riders (generally) so touchy about their brand, almost insecure even. Out of all the posts here many people diagree with your view of KTm's , why is that? In my opinion, there is not one bike on the market as I rate as "the best in all areas" But sh*t brakes and all I still rate KTM in the top 3 comp bikes ever, but that never seems enough for the KTM camp.

Ps my oppinion about the brakes is from experiance not what I read in an industry dependant mag.

Edited 24/04/07 01:34 AM by Dagabond

[tab]

I hope the thread-starter has got his answer

[AceofSpades]

BAH, Just get a GG or a sherco and enjoy I say.

I love my GG450. anyone could ride it, turn the wick up and it goes.

I tested KTMs ,TMs, Yammies etc. all had very harsh points for an AVERAGE rider like myself.

the GG is so forgiving.

I hit a Tree Root with my left hand barkbuster ( uprooted Tree ) this threw BOTH my hands off the bars on a 2nd gear wfo singletrack. because its steering is stable, it hit the rut and fell in. no crash executed.

Have done similar on my old Yammie WR400... went arse up in a big way.

KTM's are good for riders who can PUSH them

for an average gumbie, you needa very un-intimidating and forgiving bike..

my pick for a beginer would be

New, GG450, Sherco 4.5i

S/H DRZ 400, XR 400 KLX 400( basicaly a drz anyway).

[tmac450]

The Yamahas are good with the 450 or 250 fs being the pick of the lot. With dirt bikes, bigger isn't better and at your skill level you'll go better on something that's easier to ride. Look at the type of riding you want to do. If it's tight trails or track work then a 250 f is the go. More open trails then look at a 450. Electric start is also a must.

not one mention of the DRZ here, knowing full well he hasn't ridden years, you recommend 2 full on enduro bikes.

so you entirely slam me, stating that I have no cred etc is because I rate ktm brakes as crap. Ok I will conceed that sh*t was a little harsh, I will re phase "KTM brakes are far from the best brakes available on the latest and greatest bikes " So get over it . Re the comment of there clubman etc, most beginners etc who read ADB etc ASSUME clubman are gumbies of similar level to themselves, that's my point about the tests , all the riders are at the very minnium good to great BUSH riders. The 450 vs the 250 debate was your doing, u suggested one as a suitable beginers bike, I never suggested a 450 , but I did state that he may be able to find a GG450 for 6.5k. FACT show me a 250f that isn't rated as an enduro weapon. Fact not one of these bikes would come even close to being as suitable for the BUSH for a beginner as the drz/klx. Fact every 250f I have ridden in the last few years will eat a drz in any comp event, but this isn't what was asked of us by any one. You did concede in later post that the xr400 or the drz's are good for the bush. Again ,just about every heated discussion about dirt bikes usually ends up in a mines bigger/better than yours, and almost every time its KTM VS the world. Why are KTM riders (generally) so touchy about their brand, almost insecure even. Out of all the posts here many people diagree with your view of KTm's , why is that? In my opinion, there is not one bike on the market as I rate as "the best in all areas" But sh*t brakes and all I still rate KTM in the top 3 comp bikes ever, but that never seems enough for the KTM camp.

Ps my oppinion about the brakes is from experiance not what I read in an industry dependant mag.

Yes, as I have said all along. There are no bad bikes out there. You will notice that I at no time have said any bikes were 'sh*t'.

I am no one eyed KTM fan (you seem to be a one eyed KTM hater). If you had made frivolous comments about 'sh*t brakes' on a Yamaha, or a Gas Gas, I would have defended them the same. Why is it that KTMs seem to be singled out all of the time?

I will say again, it all comes down to personel set-up. I have ridden bikes (same model as mine even) that feel like the worst thing in the world with doghy brakes and sh*t suspension. I've ridden a TM (widely regarded as a race ready beast) that was set up as the most compliant trail cruiser ever. I have ridden a couple of factory pro MX bikes (one that felt great, the other I couldn't stand, but loved in standard trim). To criticise the way you did is ignorant, illinformed and simply giving false information.

My input on a 250f was origionaly in reply to another's comments saying they would be too slow. Then in reply to your strange comments saying they would be too hard to ride????

Fianlly, with the magazines, I'm not sure who would be as naieve as you suggest, as most magazines will now state which is their best comp bike, best trail bike and best all rounder. Funnily enough, they seem to pretty much come to the same conclusions as you do. Are your comments commercially orientated too?

To the original poster, it seem we all agree that in your price and skill range the DRZ400, XR400 and KLX400 are the pick.

There's plenty of info on the net about these bikes, their 'set-ups' and maintenance. Don't worry about the rest of us wanking on with dick size contests.

[turtle33]

this dosn't end, I never said ktm's were sh*t. FFS read it again, I said the brakes were sh*t, I then said I rate them in my top 3 race bikes ever. This never stopped you attacking me (in usual ktm owner style) personally sayin I had no cred. Dont even go down the path of theses bikes can be set up this way and that, with enough $ you could do almost anything to any bike. I will say it just one more time I RATE KTM AS ONE OF MY BEST RACE BIKES EVER so get over your over reacting self.

Edited 07/04/07 09:59 AM by turtle33

[Trough Lolly]

I reckon all newbies should have a ATK-700..... once riding that thing ANY bike would feel like a peewee 50 haha

[XR6T8080]

My input on a 250f was origionaly in reply to another's comments saying they would be too slow. Then in reply to your strange comments saying they would be too hard to ride????

To the original poster, it seem we all agree that in your price and skill range the DRZ400, XR400 and KLX400 are the pick.

There's plenty of info on the net about these bikes, their 'set-ups' and maintenance. Don't worry about the rest of us wanking on with dick size contests.

I had my first ride today in a couple of years on one of those sh*tty 125 chinese import things, actually went better than I thought, and so did I considering the length of time between riding, so now its all covered in mud in the back yard, came off only once being silly in a heap of mud while my mate was doing donuts in his car behind me.

Didnt take me long to re-get the hang of it again, couldnt help thinking how much more fun I would have had on a 400 - 450cc bike, 250 is definately too small for me.

I will probably ride a 250F just to see how much or little power it has, but I say I'll be getting a 400 - 450.

the XR400, how is it to ride? I rode an XR250 a couple of years back and I didnt like the way you 'sat in' the bike rather than 'on it' if you know what I mean. is the new XR400 like that ? or does it still have the same or similar riding position.

I had a CBR250 a couple of years back, and couldnt fault that mechanically, so im definatley not writing off the hondas as a choice.