Brisbane Folk

[LTS60]

Yep me and dad work for town & country his got the BSA license I m getting mine when I m not slack and less busy with work.

[turtle33]

"its called "self control"....."

True, that is something I am lacking... got fired from my last job because of it, but I've been real good until the last few months.

anyways, mast of your own destiny and all that, so that's why I'm getting out.

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with that back ground, good luck. My suggestion would be group training or similar, hopefully you will get short term hire outs and therefor different bosses. I used to be considered an "angry young man" but I NEVER hit anyone who didn't hit me first. Walk away and calm down, its the only way. You will discover one day what your boss is going thru, maybe there is more to what he tells/makes you do than you realise. Maybe hes just a arse wipe. But I will tell you this, if my 3rd year apprentices had an "anger problem" than they would be in the same situation as you. That said there is no justification to treat your guys like sh*t.

good luck tony

[turtle33]

Yep me and dad work for town & country his got the BSA license I m getting mine when I m not slack and less busy with work. 

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dont put it off mate, it will only get harder and more paperwork. FFS, a general builders licience can take years of tafe and not to mention the onsite exp. Yeah I agree its a rip but I tend to hire bsa card holders. The law states that u must hold a bsa licience for any work over $1100 (inc materials) and the fines are huge (for both of us). That all said, I prefere to see your work and then hire you. Its been a while since the BSA had a blitz, the last one got me for not having a builders sign onsite, unlicienced plasterer and painter, cost me $2600.00 in fines. I was stoked as you could imagine.

[Felix]

Yeah I understand the whole empathy thing, but put it this way, I have worked my arse off since day one, and after three months I was already working by myself... great start to my learning... and to top it off he was charging me out a tradie rate (88) and paying me 2nd lowest apprentice rate (11.70). So he pimps me to customers and tells them I'm a tradie, sure I can do the work but that's not the point, I'm ment to be learning off one.

I dont mind getting paid that but its been going on for nearly 3 years. IR reckon they cant do anything unless someone puts in a complaint... which has happened, but to no result.

Combine that with a complete lack of ethics, not paying me my tool allowance ($1800), not putting me through tafe, unsafe work practices and general dodgyness.

So I getting my paper work straight and shooting through. Just need to find someone where to go.

I have become semi zen like now at work... just focusing on the new car coming and moving on to somewhere better, oh yeah plus a couple of vals and a few red bulls before work help heaps!

[BA_XR6Turbo_Ute]

turtle33, as far as I understand the law. For example I work for a contractor. He has the BSA card and I work under that particular contractor some I'm covered by his BSA license but I agree it is better to have your own card as well. Safer for everyone concerned and less hassle

Edited 25/03/07 12:01 PM by BA_XR6Turbo_Ute

[Fat-Tony]

Combine that with a complete lack of ethics, not paying me my tool allowance ($1800), not putting me through tafe, unsafe work practices and general dodgyness.

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I dont believe that your employer has to pay for you to attend tafe, someone correct me if im wrong, and as for unsafe work practices, call up workcover, im sure they would love to hear about it

[Dagabond]

http://www.qas.org.au/site/index.aspx

http://www.apprenticeshipsqld.com.au/

I did the last two years through a group training scheme back in the nineties it was good in that they placed you in different companies and you werent locked into being under one employer.

You gain a greater undertstanding of your chosen field from the different places you work at from time to time and the different environments your placed in.

Well worth contacting even if its just to get some information or ideas from them, I think you'll find them more than helpful.

[turtle33]

turtle33, as far as I understand the law.  For example I work for a contractor.  He has the BSA card and I work under that particular contractor some I'm covered by his BSA license but I agree it is better to have your own card as well.  Safer for everyone concerned and less hassle

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not if you subcontract to him, if you work on wages with your dad and he's licenced than that's ok (you will be classed as a labourer and he will have to pay wkcover super etc). Its always a risk, but if BSA ever turn up, do a runner before he sees you otherwise he will ask the principal contractor who you are. By law you need periodic subcontact agreements or subcontract agreements which are rarely filled out. Remember the licience/bsa is there to protect you as much as the client. (rearly works that way but better than nothing).

[turtle33]

and after three months I was already working by myself... great start to my learning

good your obviously a smart bloke...

and to top it off he was charging me out a tradie rate (88)

that's his choice as I said previously its his business, me as the principal contractor would have a problem paying full rates for an apprentice if he did the whole job and unsupervised.

and paying me 2nd lowest apprentice rate (11.70).

again his choice, bit of a low act but none the less he isnt required to pay you any more. By the time you pay oncosts  (super wk cover tools tafe travel etc) is a sh*t more than $11.70. As a rule you dont make $ out of an apprentice till 2.5 -3 years into the apprenticeship.

So he pimps me to customers and tells them I'm a tradie

Pimp is a bit harsh, if he tells them your a fully qualified tradie than that's a problem, but if he just says your a tradie he aint lieing. Remember if you f*ck up, its his house and car on the line not your's ,you as an apprentice cant be held responsable for your work.

sure I can do the work but that's not the point, I'm ment to be learning off one.

so if you cant do it who do you ask or do you guess? I prefer to supervise apprentices, but some I have had are very good and can work on ther own in months. ( domestic rough in/ fit off for sparkies is really childs play, industral is a different game though.) I would expect a GOOD apprentice sparkie to do a rough in or fit off after 3 months standing on his head.

I dont mind getting paid that but its been going on for nearly 3 years. IR reckon they cant do anything unless someone puts in a complaint... which has happened, but to no result.

I bet they didnt find anything wrong legally (morally may be different)

Combine that with a complete lack of ethics,

A disgruntled employee talking  (if this came up in an interview I would think exactly that)

not paying me my tool allowance ($1800), not putting me through tafe,

Completely illegal, when he signed your indentures he contractually agreed to supply you with both, contact the apprenticship board and tell them your not getting the block traing because without it you cant get your trade. Do it before you leave dont let some other poor bastard to fork out for  what, 12 weeks of tafe.

unsafe work practices and general dodgyness.

Opinion or fact? if its fact call workplace health and saftey, they wont involve you but will ream him good and proper if your right. Dodgyness? according to you or energex? Again if your concerened then call the authority and have his work inspected.

So I getting my paper work straight and shooting through. Just need to find someone where to go.

good because the tafe issue is a really big problem.

I have become semi zen like now at work... just focusing on the new car coming and moving on to somewhere better, oh yeah plus a couple of vals and a few red bulls before work help heaps! 

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Your reply reads of sour grapes, becareful how you tell your next prospective employer why you left, because the way I read it, I see an apprentice questioning the way the boss run's his business (I bet he never involves you in any part of the admin of it) and I would think to myself " will this guy question my business methods" and would say that your too much of a risk. I would then call your last boss and get his version of events.

All of the above is real world stuff and I say it to help you not hinder you. Believe me when you get to run your own business you will quickly see things in a different light and some of your opinions of this guy may change. Then again he may be a total turd. But in your last two posts you have said you have been sacked for no self control and now you seem to be heading down a no win path with his guy, it's a really rare to end up with 2 turd's in a row but not imposible.

The more I read the more I think group training is for you. In the real world your charcter will be held in just as high of regard as your skills.

hope it works out.

[Felix]

First off, thanks for your honesty and effort... its rare.

No probs with most of the work I do, from a 4 million dollar printer install at the gold coast, to fire make safes and refits. There is not much I wont have a crack at, and if I am unsure there is plenty of people to phone. Where it annoys me is when you dont know you are doing something wrong its hard to ask for help. Plus picking up the little things, the tips and tricks... just stupid little things but really helpful none the less.

Eithics/morals... the money thing I guess is more sour grapes then the rest... I went from a very well paid job to this (by choice) as I wanted to do it, and love it. I guess I felt hes making plenty off me, I would like to see some

I have run two places of business before and I know how things work, I am involved in every aspect of the company now because if I dont jobs go pear shaped as no one else gives a toss. Invoicing, booking, ordering, planning, quoting, there is not much I dont do. Hes been bankrupt once before and has a MASSIVE rep amongst his peers for some of the things I mentioned.

he has two unsafe practices strikes against him, three I understand they take your contractors lic off you?? He has been taken off the board of the ECA, his entire admin staff has left, he cant hire new tradesmen, at one point he had a 1/4 tradie to appentice ratio (I would be taking other apprentices and even work experience kids out and I was in the start of my 2nd year). ESO has just been over one of our sites after a complaint and we had to go back (not my job ) and do a heap of 'repairs', to get it up to scratch. hes been involved in so many court battles since I have been there with disgruntled customers.

So yes I am sour, disgruntled, bitter, desperate, but I dont want to be. I enjoy working, I enjoy learning, I enjoy interacting with customers and my colleges.

On a side note, the reason I got the sack from my last place was due to a 2 harresment complaints both of which I admit to, but I hold nothing against my boss, I have been back there and done some deals with them since, but I learnt my lesson big time. Out of 8 or so full time jobs I have had here and in England, that was the first one I got the sack and that was because they 'had' to.

Your dead on with the tafe though, that's my main concern as I dont want to drag any of these issues across to a new place. Plus it doesnt make myself very attractive employment wise.

al