98% Of Bf Turbos Auto?

[F6_Tornado]

Personally I prefer the Auto over the manual.

I had the BF Tornado 6 speed manual for 9 months with some 300rwkws + and it was great. I then purchased the BF 6speed Auto which has the same 300rwkws+ and there is no comparison whatsoever.

At first the auto feels just like any other auto but as the minutes, hours and days go by you soon realize this is no ordinary auto and it is very smart indeed. It does however take time to be able to work with it and get the best from it and as such you can drive it just like a manual.

The main benefit of it is it spends 99% of its time in Lockup so none of the power train loss like the conventional auto.

An example of this is my BA manual went 208rwkws on the Dyno and on the exact same dyno my BF Auto went 226rwkws. Now this would normally be the other way around.

Another example is My old T3 Pursuit Ute would only go into Lockup in 4th (using 4th as an example) @ 100% throttle @ 207kmh whereas the BF goes into lockup instantly you change gears.

I can say without any hesitation that this auto would beat the manual hands down not only in a straight line but in whatever situation you like to put it. At first I didn’t think so but as this transmission is so smart you do need some time to learn how it works and what it can do, then work with it.

What you cant do is compare this transmission to anything in an Australian car before the BF and as such comparing the 6 speed auto to a BA 4 speed it just like comparing apples to oranges.

Yes I agree that the manual is better than a 4 speed transmission hands down.

Yes I agree that the six speed Auto is better than Both the six speed manual and as such the 4 speed auto.

Like anything you need to have tried both before you condemn them and spend more than 5 mins in one to get to learn yourself.

Too many posters here who are one eyed and never even tried one yet are keyboard experts and unless it’s got the third pedal your nothing but a steer’r.

It doesn’t take to much brain power to push the clutch in and count to six!!

To get a six speed auto to sing it will take a lot more brain power and hands on to be able to make it boogie when you so desire with much greater results.

Is it 2006 or are we still in the 70’s?

[Mildman]

You make some good points, I drive a 6-spd manual.

Reason: I like driving manuals.

I like heel-toe downshifting, an experience you miss out on with an auto.

Even if the auto is faster, when I really think about it it's all about the driving experience.

Maybe next XR6T I'll look into this auto again...

I understand ION are making a locally produced 6spd auto too...this might be the one that ends up in the Holden. (I'm not sure who ION are making the 6-spd for)

[Chooka]

Hey Guy's,

Geea and I spoke about this the other week and I think I have had the experience to compare both. I had the BFXR6T 6speed auto for a week then swapped it over for a BFXR6T 6manual for a week and these were my thought's

If I was to go out and buy a new BF hands down it would br the 6auto, as F6_tornado said it takes a while to learn the way it works and get the best out of it. I have never been in a stocko that chirps sideways into second!

But on the other hand if I was to go a seocnd hand BAII (would not consider BAI as no 6 speed) it would be the six speed manual for the simple fact once you start modding all you need is an upgraded clutch and the 6 speed manuals are NEAR bullit proof.

My conclusion was that the auto was clearly faster in a straight line with no boost drop off between gear changes but I actually got more injoyment driving the manual

If I was getting a BF auto for me! BAII it would be the manual!

Chooka

[jetute]

You make some good points, I drive a 6-spd manual.

Reason: I like driving manuals.

I like heel-toe downshifting, an experience you miss out on with an auto.

Even if the auto is faster, when I really think about it it's all about the driving experience.

Maybe next XR6T I'll look into this auto again...

I understand ION are making a locally produced 6spd auto too...this might be the one that ends up in the Holden. (I'm not sure who ION are making the 6-spd for)

←

I agree... if you aint pushing a clutch your not manual shifting no matter how much you think you are.... sure the 6 speed auto is great (super actually) but it doesnt have the peddle for the left leg... and that's the part I enjoy. You cant take away the enjyment factor. I would like to see a 6 speed auto and a 6 speed manual do 15 laps of bathurst, both 300rwkw.

As much as I love the manual, I do think the next car will be an auto My wife (who loves manuals),,, now says she cant help the kid in the back seat with a manual

when shes driving... told her she shouldnt be helping the kid wheter its a manual or an auto when driving.... geexz did she get the shiits. I think the next car will be an auto TERRI

[Mildman]

Just to bring this point back from the dead, I'm up for a new XR6T again, I've just test driven an auto and it felt fairly good....it seemed to have less from 5K - 6K than my 6spd manual....but hard to say if that's tranmission or a car with 15km on the clock that is still a little consevative.

I am planning to test another auto XR6T on Saturday into some corners and then make a decision.

How many recent auto converts are there out there? As I'm starting to waiver from my die hard manual position...

[SavageF6]

There's quite a few. Just drive both and see what you like. Make sure the auto is in performance mode too.

[Mildman]

I really kicked on in the guts today....just seemed a little sluggish compared to the manual - without a G meter though it's hard to tell how much is because it's smoother.

It seems to shift about as quick as a manual, kick down feels a little slower but again subjective. I'm busing my hands and feet with changing gears so I notice the timing passing a little more, in the auto as I don't have anything to do but let the computer handle it if you know what I mean.

Edited 04/10/06 10:56 AM by Mildman

[tmac450]

I took a BF XR6T with a 6 speed auto for a drive the other day. The ZF really is a beautiful transmission. In performance mode it's amazing! I've read all the articles but you can't appreciate how good it really is until you drive one.

It's a pity the VE is getting it also.

←

I reckon it is good that VE is getting too

better competition, and more choices for the public. this would inturn get Ford to develop/use newer and more exciting technologies which would benefit us again

←

The VE uses an American 6 speed auto in the hi-po 8s only. All others still use the old crappy 4 speed auto.

I chose the BF auto because after having performance cars with real manuals that actuall allow fast shifting, the Ford manuals are dissapointing. I had an AUII XR6 with a T5, what a useless piece of crap that box is. I drove a couple of 6 speed manuals in XR8 and 6, they are much better, but still not great. Iwould normally be a die hard manual driver, but the ZF was better for me. It performs better than the manuals and the thing about lap times isn't really an issue when you considder these cars aren't really the most athletic specimines to chuck around.

[Mildman]

Appreciate the feedback - maybe there are some issues with the manual. I sometimes have trouble hitting third when I'm giving the car some serious loving...it just bounces out. I think that's probably more to do with my clutch work than the gearbox though.

It's one thing I'm not going to miss - the old bounce out of third scenario.

Sounds like I've just about made my decision.

Any down side people have found to the auto transmission?

[replicant]

The V8 Commodores use a GM 6LE80 auto from the US (made by GM Powertrain) and it's rated to 800Nm. Interestingly, it isn't as fuel efficient compared to a manual as the ZF is compared to a manual. The 6LE80 is due to get a little sister which I think is coded 6LE60 which will suit the 6 but is probably at least a face lift away (say 12-18 months at least)...

The Global V6 Commodores use the very old 4 speed GM Hydramatic (in the Omega and Berlina) or the 5 speed auto (which I think is made in France) in the SV6 and the Calais. This was the one that in the VZ had the superfluous steering wheel paddle shifts which most drivers played with for about, oh, ten minutes as a gimmick before manually shifting through the lever thereafter or leaving it in auto. In the VE, Expensive Daewoo went for a tip shift system using the selector.

In the BA, the 6 speed manual was a much better gearbox than the Ion 4 Speed automatic (even with the sequential function) - the Ion 4 speed was never really happy dealing with more than 400Nm of torque as it was originally designed for the EA26 which never contemplated a v8 or turbo powerplant - the extra clutch packs kind of made the thing a bit dozy and in the BF where it doesn't see service with the 8 or the Turbo it's actually a lot better than in the BA.

The 6 speed Tremec gave much better economy and especially with the Boss V8s made them more driveable because the engines have a very narrow power band from about 4 to about 5 and a half - from 4 onwards because of the 4v DOHC heads like revs to make power and only up to 5 and a half because the block is out of a Ford US truck and doesn't like big revs.

In auto form - the XR8 with a ZF is a much better proposition than the Ion 4 (it means you stay in the power band more) no question. Because the Barra 240T/245T has such a wide, flat torque band the difference in autos between the BA/BF are less apparent than in the XR8 but the economy/crispness of the shifts is much better.

In the real world (ie not on a track or a strip) the ZF auto means the difference between the manual BF XR6T and the ZF equipped one point to point is less noticeable especially with speed limits. The learning mode of the ZF is pretty good and the box does a very good job of learning the driving characteristics and second guessing the driver's intentions.

Certainly, driving at 10/10ths or on a track, the Tremec 6 speeder is the way to go. An auto box is never going to be able to make the calls in terms of gear selection that a talented manual driver can make who can anticipate corners and where exactly they want the car to be even with a smart box like the ZF. Even with the sequential shift you still can't make the kind of changes with blipping the throttle on downchanges that you can in a manual.

Mind you, in a put your foot down and hang on an auto has less chance of flubbing the change and changes can be quicker than a manual and usually more consistent. (Although if you aren't mechanically sympathetic a manual box can be changed very quickly indeed esp if you don't use the clutch - ask Greg Murphy who doesn't in his V8 Supercar - he left foot brakes as opposed to heel and toes)

Having said that if you aren't driving 10/10ths or on a track, the ZF is an effortless cruiser or grand tourer - the box changes quickly enough and the Barra 245T has a wall of torque to be responsive enough for 98% of situations esp with the option of the sequential mode. And it's much better for towing (yes, I used to tow a boat) although I did prefer towing the boat with AWD Territory - it might have less power but when the boat and trailer start getting up in weight, sometimes it's best to be a vehicle that weighs over 2 tonnes and with AWD if you are going up a wet ramp or along the beach.

Which is unsurprising that the majority of BF XR6T owners have selected a vehicle that provides the best compromise in a day to day proposition - having said that I prefer a manual car but I did get a auto BF XR6T - personal preference. Also when you let your baby go (hopefully when the Orion is good enough to buy to replace it) then it may be easier to shift the auto as the manual will only appeal to the enthusiast (but then again there are a lot of them).

If we didn't have alternative points of view then we wouldn't have Expensive Daewoo drivers would we?