Is This Stealing?

[jordak]

Legally, morally whatever, you have done the right thing by raising it with your boss, make a note in your diary and forget about it!

If you feel strong enough about it continue to keep notes of over supply. This will provide you with good leverage if you should ever need it down the track.

In the meantime - Dont bite the hand that feeds you!

[ducatijb]

Suppliers problem...just keep a note to cover your

[turb06]

We get freebies all the time and keep them

If your suppliers are so dumb as to ship but not invoice then it is either a freebie or they need to conduct their business better

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that's an attitude that will bite you one day.

Dazza.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

attitude or not, I agree with him! lol.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is why both you and him are ethically corrupt.

that's nothing to be proud of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When your suppliers dump you and you find it hard to get another one because of your reputation, is when you regret it, I have heard of a few franchisees that have been in this position.

Dazza.

[BA_Turbs]

Hoon,

This is a simple theft. It is not fraud, a deception or any other offence. For it to meet the critera for those offences you must have actively sought to decieve the supplier in order to get the goods for nothing. By passing the buck to your boss you have not cleared yourself of any liablity. Also, if you commit an offence in concert with other people, you commit the original offence, there is no such thing as "theft in concert" etc.

Another example similar to this is if you find a wallet lying in the street and it has a licence, cash, bank cards etc, If you just keep it, its theft. You are obliged to do something about goods that have come into your possesion whether it be by your own will or accidently.

This area is criminal law and the answers are that simple. Its the most common offence I deal with and have charged dozens of people with it.

This, however, is the real world. Make your own decision.

BA_Turbs

[Falchoon]

Thanks for the replies and advice. It has happened a few times in the short time (about a month) that I have worked there. The boss has the same attitude as some other people in this thread - he says if the supplier is silly enough not to count the products that are sent out then they deserve to lose out. He says the same thing about stock transfers too. Sometimes we get stock from other stores and they have sent too many items and he says "don't worry about it, put it on the shelf". So far the value of the goods is reasonably small, <$100.

We also have a policy where we don't claim for stock damaged or faulty for value <$20 (not worth the trouble) so this is another excuse the boss uses to rip-off the suppliers. We can and do save up the faulty/damaged products until we have enough value to raise a claim so this excuse isn't really valid.

To keep my job I will have to do what the boss says though I'm sure if the hit the fan he would deny everything and blame me (as bosses do).

[ktford]

make a note in your diary and forget about it!

This is good idea & not some of the holier than thou crud elsewhere appearing

Scotty

[whizzer]

aahh easy to see who the real estate salesman is

Not Gaz

[mickq]

Hoon,

This is a simple theft.  It is not fraud, a deception or any other offence.  For it to meet the critera for those offences you must have actively sought to decieve the supplier in order to get the goods for nothing.  By passing the buck to your boss you have not cleared yourself of any liablity.  Also, if you commit an offence in concert with other people, you commit the original offence, there is no such thing as "theft in concert" etc.

Another example similar to this is if you find a wallet lying in the street and it has a licence, cash, bank cards etc,  If you just keep it, its theft.  You are obliged to do something about goods that have come into your possesion whether it be by your own will or accidently.

This area is criminal law and the answers are that simple.  Its the most common offence I deal with and have charged dozens of people with it.

This, however, is the real world.  Make your own decision.

BA_Turbs

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I partially disagree.

It is not theft. The supplier has, of their own accord, made a delivery of goods to you. They have dropped them off at your store, with the intent that they become your goods. As someone said, now and then this will mean freebies (does happen) despite the paperwork not accounting for this. This immediately raises potential doubt.

An exception to this would be where both parties have a contract between them stipulating that over deliveries must be raised as an issue to the other party.

As no active attempt by the employee to acquire or keep goods without good cause has occurred and there is reason as to why oversupply may have been forthcoming, no theft can have occurred. Simply put, there is no intent that can be proven.

I can give you another example which is very closely matched. If I am a regular customer at a shop (ie they can find me if they need to) and I one day leave an extra $20 with my payment for something at the shop, there is NOT A CHANCE IN HELL the store can be charged with theft just because they dont tell me about it. They have not acted in a manner which had intent to steal. They can simply claim they didnt notice... (In reality that is exactly what will occur).

If, however I go back to the store and demand my $20 back as I made a mistake, and they lie to me and say I didnt leave an extra $20, then they can be charged with fraud, as they are trying to deceive me with the aim of gaining financial advantage.

Its DOES become fraud if as I stated the supplier starts asking questions and you deceive the supplier by confirming that only the ordered items were delivered. At that stage I would cease interacting, require my manager to deal with it and if it becomes a bigger issue, get representation of some kind.

It is most definitely not theft. Not a chance - and its quite obvious why.

Conspiracy charges are alive and well. If you plan to rob a bank with a gun with more than just yourself, you will be charged with conspiracy to commit an attempted armed robbery. If you deceive someone to gain financial advantage with more than one person involved with the dodgyness, you will be charged with conspiracy to commmit fraud.

All of these are much more serious charges than just a plain fraud or theft charge and have higher penalties applied.

I am responsible for over $750M of my companies expenditure, and know very, very clearly both the ethical and legal responsibilities that apply in this country in a variety of very unusual circumstances - I come across them every day. People get fired and sometimes charged as a result of these issues, all dependent on both ethics and the laws. Both of which I know rather well.

Oh, and the person who posted this is acting as an agent of the company he works for. As such he does not carry 100% responsibility for what the company as a whole does. His low position makes this even less so. The reasonable actions in this circumstance (as per my initial post) is to alert his manager of the mistake. This DOES let him off, both legally and in reality. The only exception would be if he was reasonably certain that his manager was doing something dodgy and/or his manager asked him to take actions that the emplyee could reasonably ascertain to be furthering illegally keeping the products. As the employee is definitely not privvy to all communications the manager has with suppliers, there is more than enough reason for the employee to assume the manager took appropriate actions after being alerted.

Book 'em Danno.

Edited 10/04/05 01:06 PM by mickq

[whizzer]

call me a cretin if you wish, but it wasnt paid for, you dont own it, give it back.

simple really

dont do it scotty... I know what you are thinking

[phantomchic]

To cover yourself the oversupply should be reported in writing.

also at the end of the day the Ledger will not balance... I wouldn't want to be around if there was an audit!