HSE2

wish they had supported the Xbox as well

Wheels mag got a 5.2 and a 13.5. If that was with two people on board then Motor Mag could crack 5 and get close to 12.9. They got 273 in the manual. But then again these are HSV press fleet. They do tend to be pretty handy, not that I am suggesting anything underhanded.

My two cents GO THE CABIN- or take a lillo and be prepared to sleep on the floor Mind you I haven't been on the new boats but the seats do look the same to me. We came over for the Tickford day in 2002 and thought we would save some money by selecting the seats. On that boat the seats section was in a room. We started to get concerned when people started reserving floor space. On the return trip we did the same thing. If you get sea sick and Bass Straight is not the place to find that out, you really need the lie down option. If you have seasoned sea legs not such an issue but where you guys are going you really need to be up to speed on the sleep refreshed side of things.

There are a couple of really good shots of the Ford products in this edition Especially pg84 and the front on view of the XR8. Some pretty good quotes in there as well especially about the Xr6

In Tasmania the F6 with no options costs about 64 driveway. Not sure of the difference in rego to the mainland. From memory those options cost $2750 for the leather The sunroof has gone up to $2250 And the wheel is about $950 So you have a good 6k worth of options I would say both those figures are incorrect and the right price is probably just under 70k or very close.

That makes two of us then. Got on the Dearlership PC and it worked ok. I still can't view the colour options and with my limited PC skills I can't fix it.

Yes -Wheels used to run two people up and back. Don't know if they still do but I think it might be fair to assume a better showing from Motor mag. The six speed as really trasnformed the Xr6T. Wheels was very pleased with new ratios, really opened the package up

If you are going to make accusations don't hide behind that secrecy you talk of, start naming names. That’s a pretty big slur to make of the members of this site and as far as I am concerned there is no doubt that comment is aimed at me. I assume this site tracks IP access of users IDs. Can I please have someone confirm my IP address moments over this site please? As for the rest start a new thread and see what happens. We will have a real close look at what you just said.

They couldn't get standing start times because of a clutch problem but in gear times are very compelling. 80-120 3rd- 3.8 4th 4.9 it matches the VZ SS and decisively beats the XR8 In fifth 7.2 for the T 8.1 for the SS and 9.1 for the Xr8 In sixth 10.4 13.1 for the XR8 and 16.4 for the SS They had two examples and each box was different They finish the article with a quote “If you thought you liked the Turbo Xr6, just wait till you drive the F6. Next issue"

Got me. I nearly had half a paged typed out :D

Looks like wheels managed to get a 5.2 and a 13.5 out of the Ls2. One practice run and then a 5.6 and 13.8 matching the PB of the GTS. The best time was achieved by flat shifting and a more aggressive launch

After reading the entire article they have nothing but praise for the new box so I am not sure what the negative comment at the end is about. Comprehensively beats the Expensive Daewoo unit A comment that both cars demonstrate some typical lash and clunk for the T56 is the only negative thing mentioned about the Ford box LS1 dot com gets a mention early on so perhaps the comments on these forums are starting to pay off

To cut a long story really short the XR8 wins Same story the SS is quicker What they disliked Thirsy when punished ( what isn') Average gearshift (surprise) Pricy premium brakes What they liked Engine note comfort and room bulge dynamics quarter mile times 14.4 plays 14.1 161 plays 164 Same margin netted the same gap to 100. They are complaining about the 6 speed not improving the times but I will have to read the entire article to see what the story is

Funny what people will read into conversations to try and save face. Right here and now I will apologies for the way I treated you. In a weak moment I resorted to your level and ignored your right to have a say (no matter how ignorant it was) of the facts that people were talking about at the time. You have to realise that you jumped into a conversation and basically told people to piss off. You want to do that then be prepared for what follows, but you have an apology from me. I would encourage you again to read what T6M has said very carefully. It is not a simple subject and the line between abuse and what you call acceptable is thin. The interjection of race cars and trucks and the simplified conversation there after doesn't do this conversation justice by a long way. Trucks have inbuilt engine braking devices some as many as three and for the large part continue to run drum brake technology. Extreme driving conditions deserve special techniques. My view, as mentioned by Merc is very much a view based on mechanical sympathy first that does not compromise car safety and control. What can be done and what should be done to prolong the life of your car are two different things entirely. What has margin for error and what doesn’t are again completely different Every part of your car has a set life. Every time you use that part it is one time closer to wearing out. Every time you change gears is one less time the throw out bearing can work every time the clutch is used it slips and so on. Ok you won't see any problems in your life time (if you’re lucky) if you get rid of it after a couple of years but in the cars life time the chances are you will. Slowing a car on the gearbox can't prolong the life of the driveline and in the case of the Fords and their diff issues especially so. It is a mechanical impossibility, because each time you use something you increase wear and more so if it isn't primarily designed for such a function. As an engineer you should know that. Yes it can stand it and yes it can work but is it the most efficient system at your disposal for the job at hand and there is no way its life is being prolonged. The way you approach normal day driving should be the same as if you are confronted with an emergency stop. That needs to happen on instinct. People get into more trouble then not because they don't actually know how there car will act under heavy braking. People drive around with the car pulling right or left and then wonder why it performs badly when they really need it. If you instinctively associate changing down to slow down chances are you aren't going to react in the most efficient way when you really need to be. You never really know how good or safe your driving technique is until its too late. You aren't really seeing it Falcons yet but the next step in safety is actually crash avoidance systems. We have the passive air bags and next you will see brake systems develop to making avoiding a crash the priority. Features like EBA ESC EBD and ECC are designed to work on the most effective and efficient method of retarding speed while giving you optimum control. They are designed to give the best control and balance in a very wide range of conditions. Braking only the driving wheels especially if turning compared to what these type systems offer is no contest. Even with today’s 4 channel ABS there is no contest. At the end of the day your brake pads are designed so even the owner can change them. They aren't expensive and they have a life expectancy much shorter then the rest of the system. It is commonsense. Nice touch about Tasmania. Would you like your shoe laces explained via the one or two head theory? In case you missed it, this side of the conversation is considered off topic. If you want to discuss it further start a thread, I will be sure to participate when I can, or alternatively please fee free to contact me personally on my email [email protected] and I will devote what ever time is required to discuss in greater length. I won’t respond in this thread after the members having hinted enough is enough so don’t think I am ignoring you.

Ian I think the numbers do matter in the greater scheme of things as there is now a greater number of people with the same issues as they existed in AU, although not necessarily a higher percentage. It's just that now there are forums such as this allowing us to become more vocal about it. Also regarding shunt under trailing throttle, that is something I have not experienced unless you tap the accelerator. I have seen you around since BON too and have seen it all now! Cheers, Dean <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hello Dean The very worse cases have that much extra play that on a trailing throttle and descending the car will slap. Oh and I agree the numbers do matter, we have a much more popular product and selling a greater number but virtually zero improvement in what really has to be a supplier issue.

Nah I just live here. You guys are doing smashingly well. Had I realised what you were planning there are a couple of events you would have liked but have just missed out on. I am jealous wish I could tag along but that looks like being a rough week for me. I was talking to Falchoon who I have known since 99 in net format only and he mentioned what you guys were up to. Your plans look great as they are.

Hey no fair. I agree with everything you say- what don't we agree on? I know we had an argument once but can't remember what it was except that we had a different understanding due to my inability to make my point. I have been a worthy defection from other forums then. I am nothing but entertaining

Yes I certainly did mean just that and as I look back through this sh*t there is a bit more I would change. I have a similar mechanical record to that of turbo6man and as mentioned how high the engine revs is important although for me if you can feel it you have stuffed up. My only acception to what T6M has said is that if only a small reduction is required the first choice for me is always brakes anyway. It’s not wrong I just work on the theory that pads are cheaper then gears and the fact I have seen some people pick a gear lower then they thought and loop it. Sometimes and the T5 is an example jumping gears can end up in angel gear anyway as the box simply refuses to engage. I am relieved my persona has redeemed although I am sure many of my opinions would raise similar eerier. If only I had expressed T6M view in his format straight up.

I don't give a flying f*ck what you do with your own equipment that is your own business. As you are an engineer thanks for proving my point by saying and I quote And if it blows I will buy another one... A better one In doing so you acknowledge the intent of the conversation and what is possible and it is always nice to have a qualified engineer to back up points. Thank you and well said and naturally I have no choice but to agree because if you are truly using this technique which I doubt as you say you have a greater risk of smashing the box or worse. Point made, point proven thanks for coming Next Your method of driving is stupid not fast. Next Ice on a road Your thinking = Greatest load of rubbish I have heard this year. I would assume you are driving to the conditions so that would surely mean reduced speed so exactly how do you propose to steer on ice with the engine under load. You’re simple. Go on keep going we need a laugh from an engineer, which proves yet another point, Paul look at the quality we have! Past your bed time yet?

No I am not. And for why. I used a "we" to imply something that isn't true by accident. If this were a debate I would be more embarrassed then Marcos Ambrose is right now because even I could cut me to pieces. Not to mention all the errors. Anyway, it’s not a competition or a debate. Look I reacted very angrily to Blonks suggestion about people that are experiencing problems and I am not even one of those people. They have there own voice so if they feel the need to take task with him they should. I take exception to anyone telling other to piss off as if to say their opinion isn't worthy of note. Other forums imply such thinking; this forum should be above that. I really do suspect my definition of compression braking isn't everybody’s understanding of the meaning. Why is this even relevant to this thread? Well in the very early days Ford accused some owners of having a driving technique that promoted drive line issues and shock of horrors compression braking was one of the bad habits. If there was a technical definition of the term I guess it would include any time said vehicle is being retarded by the use of its engine. That part is actually ok providing the speed doesn't get away on you and the thing is screaming its head off. If the descent is so steep normally the best practice is to come to a complete stop at the top select low and down you go. You never engage the clutch during the decent. However the best practice is to always slow with the brake prior to the low gear selection. I call this engine braking. That is smart safe driving in a situation that is extreme. Compression braking is normally associated but not exclusive to people that don't actually understand what is happening when the clutch is engage and the car is traveling faster then the gear set want to travel at the RMP at the time. It slows the car alright but this isn't a smart way of operating. Rule of thumb time. If at any time you or your passengers can feel retardation through selecting a lower gear on the exact moment of engagement that is poor driving imo. That is hard on your equipment for no reason. The vast majority of people that I come across are changing down gears while continuing to modulate brake applications. That is the correct method of braking IMO. It’s done at the same time as the gear selection. To answer your question Paul and I do still having trouble understand the question, no I definitely don't role up to the lights with my foot flat to the floor on the clutch. I am not even sure I understand why you would think that would be an accepted method of car control. Best practice to your example. 1. Read the traffic situation and predict the movement and stopping sequence. The car is most efficient if it doesn't have to stop. 2. Remove the foot from the accelerator with the car in gear 3. Apply brake modulation with the intent to retard progress with car still in gear 4. Once the speed is approaching the shift down point (road speed too low for gear speed) shift down while still applying brake application if a stop situation is still likely 5. If the need repeats step four until the car is either stopped or the lights have changed or you have reached the lowest forward ratio available 6. If the car does come to a complete stop I select neutral and apply the park brake with the button depressed (I.E. not ratchet application) Never at any stage was the car out of gear until at a complete standstill and never at any stage was the driveline asked to retard the cars momentum and weight. The retardation was always done with the brake system. It allows for full ABS function with out hindrance and if the car is fitted with EBD and SC gives those systems every chance of working to there full potential. At all times you are in gear ready to accelerate when the need arises but the difference is in the matching of road and car speed slightly below rather then slightly above compression engagement points. That’s my method and my definition.

Hello Paul My name is Ian I don't have to contact Ford over an issue that is common sense. Anyone trying to descend a step incline and relying on brakes alone is going to do one thing. Run out of them. Doesn't the manual say select low gear as opposed to slowing the car with that gear? Compression braking is about slowing the car and is very different to the situation you mention now and I might add the one I expressly mentioned in my reply to blonk. It is true that BLONK gave a specific example about brake performance in his reply. I took acceptation to the flippant comment and perhaps my tip could have been constructed better but I was uncertain if his brake practices were restricted to his example or a driving practice employed everyday. The subsequent reply from you basically confirmed my theory of everyday driving practice which I will stand by. I have been trained to drive in what is regarded as the best way to manage wear and performance and balance between the two. I am not a truck driver although I have to have a licensee to work where I do. I actually work with engineers in both mechanical electrical and chemical side of the cement manufacturing process. Some times I know who I would listen to most because many engineers don’t have a grasp of real world applications but if you would like to convey my thoughts on this matter to Ford please feel free to do so. Steve or Greg Hoinville especially will get a kick out of my engineer’s comments on the Ford side and perhaps Mr. Harrison on the FPV side although he isn’t driveline, but make sure you tell them where these comments came from and you will have to use my name. They aren't asking you to use the gears to brake they are asking you to use lower gears to stop the gathering of momentum once you start your decline. That might sound like nitpicking and in a way it is but the simplest way to explain it is that the cars speed has first been managed by braking. Once slow enough you select the lower gear and then descend. The idea is not to accelerate so you take your foot off the accelerator and then you brake and release continually down the incline. This is definitely a form of engine braking but isn’t the same as compression braking. The difference between the two is another nitpick in itself but it is there. Now we both know that modern brake systems won’t fade in everyday situations even on the steepest hills unless they are punished. By that I mean that you have raced down the hill probably accelerating where possible. If you want to be sarcastic I can play too You bloody well know rolling up to a set of lights is very different to descending a hill and that was the example you gave and the one I replied to. You example inferred normal every day driving which people certainly do get sucked into with this compression braking thinking and even though I was unsure about blonks definition yours left no doubt. Holding a cars weight is very different to asking the driveline to REDUCE SPEED as in compression braking or in approaching a set of lights as per your example. The shock load isn't placed on the driveline while ever the car is first slowed via the correct brake system and method. Now if you can’t see the merit in that there is nothing I can say to you. If you can’t see the merit in having a dedicated system designed for the purpose of retardation do its job there is nothing I can do for you. The only times gear reduction is mentioned is in a control method to reduce the chances of brake over temperature. Itself more related to poor braking practices, like people who have the brake applied the entire time not allowing a cooling off period. If you can’t see the benefits of four wheels working instead of the driving wheels only and like wise the chance of compression lock up by relying on such a method the same applies. But most of all if you can’t determine the difference between descending your mountain and rolling up to the traffic light as you originally said then I am puzzled but I do ask again why would you have the clutch depressed when you did such a thing? Want to know what I really think? I bet you don’t use compression braking at all. Most people that claim to don’t. I bet you apply the brakes like normal people slowing the car changing down gears while you do and continuing to brake the entire time and that means the brake has been pressed the entire time and perhaps even a heel and toe application for good measure to equalize it out. If the engine does spike it is probably not very much and most likely very rarely. If at anytime you can feel the car lurch backwards after releasing the clutch that is hard on your equipment and in fact very dangerous. There is absolutely no point to that method of driving and yes that applies no matter what angle the car is on.

Not correct. Shunt was the reason I joined forums in the first place and that was in 99. Guys like Falchoon predate me. I had it my AU XR8 and I too learnt to drive around it until I fixed it. I then became involved with trying to get other users similar fixes. I can tell you the build of a person and the driving position does affect how bad this problem can be. That might sound stupid but by changing the seating position we were able to get very bad cars back to reasonable. At the end of the day though the smoothest way was to ride the clutch and that is unacceptable While it is true these particular forums weren't around I can assure you places like Blueovalnews had a very strong contingent of diff concerned owners. In fact BON was the place many members first met Geoff Polites. The percentages don't matter, the fact is this is a well known problem with Falcons that is in no way related to just BA. But that is the real problem. What your describing isn't really shunt. Well it is and it isn't. The very best manuals in the world will do what you describe and really that level is acceptable. The real issues are in cars that you can't depress the clutch with out the rear end going bang or if you don't ride the clutch on engagement the car shunts. On a trailing throttle especially down hills the backlash is so sever you have to brake or knock it out of gear stop the racket at the rear end. I have seen BAs where it isn't possible to do a three point turn and hear the radio the noise has been so loud. I know owners that have switched to autos because of their AU experience. In the club community and even in the general public there is dissatisfaction at the time this problem has been about. Just because you can’t hear them doesn’t me they aren't there. I understand your point about the sweaky wheel gets the most oil and you are right and it can look unfair to an otherwise excellent product, but this is pretty basic stuff that has been around for a long time. If this problem gets into MK2 after all that has happened in the past then Ford deserves the bashing they get and that really hurts me to say that. There has always been a consistency issue between dealerships on the treatment of this issue, but with BA the situation looks to have got worse. Instead of those percentage increases mean a greater emphasise on drive quality they in fact equal a shift in warranty support for what is a know quality issue

Hello all. I hope you enjoy your stay in this state and enjoy yourselves safely. If I may. The first days travel is a pretty big one. A lot of tourists under estimate the time it takes to get around this state. I assume you wish to take advantage of some of the very best driver’s roads to be found anywhere. I would suggest that you drop the Deloraine portion of day one. You are going to be traveling in a loop that is taking you away from where you need to be and you are probably going to end up late on your first day and traveling roads with high wildlife count isn't what you want at this time of year. An easier schedule would be to head down the coast and take the very challenging hellyor gorge targa stage. Travel via old coast road to Penguin then down the cost to Burnie. If you want a great driver’s route, from Devonport head to Forth and then travel the Cradle mountain road through Wilmot. At the end you will have an option of heading back into Sheffield (the town of murals) via the bottom end of the Cethana Stage or onto Cradle Mountain. This is rated as possibly the best pieces of roads anywhere in the world. The more adventurous could finish the stage but you are heading to mole creak and the exact opposite direction to where you want to go. Sheffield opens up some great lunch opportunities, a light lunch at the pancake shop is probably too far out. Actually on the Lake Barrington road. The pub in Sheffield used to serve great counter meals last time I was there. Other observations you might like to consider is taking the sidling stage out to Scottsdale and then on to Bridport and on the trip from Launceston to Devonport take the Frankford highway instead of the Bass Highway. An alternative could be to cross over into Deloraine then Mole creek and then complete the entire Cethana targa stage If it were me your trip over could put your stomachs in a position where some of these roads might be well let’s say a challenge. Perhaps the Deloraine- Mole Creak- Cethana Wilmot and back to Devonport might be a last days drive rather then a first day’s drive. I will guarantee it will leave you with a lasting impression either way

So you did mean shunt and not roll over and you did mean stop start city driving. Well say that. If you intend to tell people to basically f*ck off and buy another product be clear about what you are talking about. Oh I know about compression braking alright. I know what it does to the driveline and I know what happens when you get it wrong and I know why the bloody brakes are in the car in the first place. As luck would have it I do have a heavy rigid license! Do you? What truck drivers do is very different to your slowing the car on the box. We slow using the braking system including the "Jake" brake. We then ask the engine system to hold against the weight with assistance from the brakes. If the brakes fail the engine won't hold the weight and everything is done prior to getting into this reduced speed / decline situation. You want to talk basic driving skills do you? What you have just said isn't compression braking. The correct way to drive is to retard the cars speed with the brakes and match engine speed to road speed, not road speed to engine speed via the shafts. You mentioned the race track, so you know what happens when you grab too much rear bias. What do you think compression braking is? What type of fool would try to slow a car with only the driving wheels or half the contact area with the road? Wake bloody up Compression braking goes as far as taking the ABS out of the equation. Cars are equipped with four brakes, surprise, one for each wheel. Do you want to guess how the brakes are configured to work in terms of bias on a road car? Impossible you can't be any dumber.

You are correct in saying, while stationary, you can't have 'shunt'. But you can get rollover noise. Maybe this is what Blonk was referring to? Unsure. Now, to say compression braking is not good driving is rediculous. That isn't good driving? It is the best and safest form of driving. Please don't tell me you're one of those drivers who approach a set of lights, with your clutch to the floor as you slow from 60km/h to a stop... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am not sure what Blonk is referring to but I will get to him in a minute. Compression braking is the worst and most dangerous form of driving there is full stop. It places unnecessary strain on components that aren't designed to retard progress. The middle peddle near the fire wall is for this reason. If you think you are saving brake wear by using the much more expensive driveline to do the brakes job then I don't know what to say. You have zero mechanical knowledge. The correct way to brake is with the brake system and match engine speed to road speed. The engine is not a brake the transmission is not a brake. What you are doing is asking the road wheels to slow the progress of the car via forcing them to twist against shaft and road. It is hard on the engine because the cars weight is transferred to the driveline. Watch what happens to engine revs when you do such an exercise. Now what caused the engine to do what it just did? Think about it! The process has worked in reverse. The lower gear has forced the wheels to slow taking all momentum weight and mass and transferring it back in to the driveline itself the most expensive part of the car in the reverse manner that it is designed to run. The car is trying to move forward and you have placed it in a situation where it is now fighting itself unassisted. That is engine braking via gear reduction otherwise know as compression braking. Would you try to select reverse while travelling forward? Well compression braking is a milder version of the same principal. Your brake system is cheap compared to this portion of the car Oh it sounds great might even fool the young and stupid into thinking you know what you are doing but that is it. You do not see race drivers use this method, you might think you do but you don’t. You will not see a truck drive use this method, they won't pass their test if they try to, these are professional drivers that do so for a living. Why would anyone approach a set of lights with the clutch depressed? What are you trying to do? Burn the clutch out for no reason? Do not confuse compression braking with slowing the car on the brake system and then selecting the appropriate gear for the road speed. This isn't compression braking. The gearbox isn't a method of breaking. In the case of an emergency you have no choice but even then the hand brake is next to try. If you try such a move and pick the wrong gear you will get compression lock up. Unnecessary and very dangerous.