An Intake Temp Cooling Idea

[Guest]

May as well run a bypass valve in the a/c line and have another evaporator intermeshed with the intercooloer......Hmmmm wheres that roll of copper. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wern't nizpro gunna run an AC pipe in the inlet plennum???

vik...heard it somewhere

[mickq]

an interesting concept.... now how long would it take to cool?? would it be as affective or more affective then a water spray kit??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It only takes a couple of minutes to cool down to freezing and beyond. So its the kind of thing you would turn on when you start to lose power when its hot, not something that may be triggered when you accellerate or similar.

And yes, it has the potential to be MUCH better than a water spray kit. They are much more efficient removers of heat than a wter spray. Water helps for sure - but something that makes your intercooler icy cold is a lot better than a simple water spray!

[mickq]

an interesting concept.... now how long would it take to cool?? would it be as affective or more affective then a water spray kit??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very interesting.

The effectiveness would depend on how it is connected to the IC. How about around the end tanks??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that's what I was thinking. I havent had a close look at my IC thought to suss it out.

[mickq]

I've read it twice... and am still confused...

I think it may be the unknown amount of beer I have had and the fact it is 2am...

Though anything to keep inlet temps down will be a good idea...though this idea sounds very time consuming...

Jack 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its the opposite of time consuming!

All you do is stick (somehow) a few flat pads (think like playing card sized or similar) to your IC. You then run the wires to your battery and put a switch in the cabin somewhere. (Or be tricky and rig it to an exsiting switch in the cabin that you dont use often). It wouldnt take long to do.

Then you flick the switch and within a few mins they are damn cold. See the attached pic for a photo of a small one being used in a computer.

In general (on a non turbo car) a 4 degree intake temp drop produces an extra horsepower. On a turbo car the power loss is even worse. that's why T's dont go nearly as well when its really hot and they have warmed up but a V8 SS wont be as badly impacted. This concept could make the car perform like it does on a cold winters morning even on a very hot day....that's a good thing for sure!

[mickq]

I think you would find that the current drawn would put such a load on the alternator that the extra couple of horsepower you would gain would be sapped up by the alternator...

Dave.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The alternators run at a fixed load, do they not? The alternator is "tuned" to put out xxxx watts at 12v across a certain rev range.

I fail to see how a higher current draw results in the alternator chewing up more engine power. This would only apply if the alternator somehow puts more load on the engine (which is via the pulley - ie the pulley becomes harder to turn as the load increases on the alternator) just because you put more electrical load on the alternator. An alternator is pretty much a reverse electric motor - the load is electrical - the physical part is just spinning things to generate the current. There isnt even a real physical link between the pulley-driven part and the electrical output part. (Other than perhaps brushes). I am reasonably sure (but not 100%) that there is no intelligence in it - ie it doesnt change something if it suddenly needs to produce more power. I guess they could have a clutch though - so that as load increases the clutch eases out which would put more load on the engine and makes the alternator spin faster and produce more power - but even if it does have that I certainly havent ever felt a noticeable drop in power from it.

Its not like aircon, which physically attaches another thing that has to be driven the the engine. The alternator's behavior doesnt change when you up the load. (To a point).

Happy to be corrected, but Im pretty sure alternators are dumb devices, and they suck (say 1hp) regardless of whether the electrical load on them is 10% or 100%.

[mickq]

mm, interesting idea..

The biggest problem is the fact they are only small..

Depending on how the cool air radiates thru the cooler would determin how many you would need.

current draw during the day would match your headlight high beam draw at night, and at night, you shouldn't need it running, so I can't see how power loss thru alternator load would be significant.

maybe 3 placed on the end tank??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I reckon maybe 2 good sized ones on each end tank - similar to the big ones on Ebay. It wouldnt take long before a fair amount of the IC is getting pretty cold.

[mickq]

May as well run a bypass valve in the a/c line and have another evaporator intermeshed with the intercooloer......Hmmmm wheres that roll of copper. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was thinking about that last night as I typed the peltier post. Yes it would help, but aircon may not be as effective as something that's -60 degrees. Also, aircon puts a huge load on the engine. So the improvements wouldnt be as good as a non-aircon solution.

Besides, if its that hot, Id rather the aircon be blowing on me!

[ColinT]

An extract from an article I found

It frequently crops up in web discussion groups: why can’t Peltier coolers be used to build an intercooler? It seems reasonable enough: Peltier coolers are designed to work off car-type voltages, in recent times their prices have been dropping fast, and they do what you want an intercooler to do – remove heat. (See the breakout for more on these fascinating devices.)

But the short answer regarding Peltier intercoolers is that with the current level of Peltier technology, it’s not going to happen. A powerful Peltier device like this one is rated at 80 watts of electrical power. Wile the relationship between thermal heat movement and electrical input power is not 1:1, the power rating of a turbo car intercooler (eg the B4 Subaru at 13.4 kilowatts) is so much higher that you’d need something like 15 Peltiers to do the same job – and that’s ignoring the very real problems of the actual heat exchange process and the power consumption from the battery. It’s certainly possible that one day intercooling will head in this direction, but so far it’s not been viable.

[GT-P 390]

Personally...if I were to use peltiers as a means of cooling I would be removing the intercooler from the front of the car and relocating it out of any direct airflow...encasing the unit in an insulated case or somthing similar. This would aid in reducing the thermal losses due to the large amount of unwanted air passing over the intercooler and warming it up. The increased efficiency by removing the external heating souorce(wind) would mean that you could lower the required voltage...making their use a more viable proposition.

[Ezy10z]

I think it would be better in the long run to install a larger intercooler than trying to make the standard intercooler more efficient.

With a decent intercooler the intake temp can be well under 20C.

Robbie.