In fact, I think that much of the variations in the factory performance are greatly due to the aggressive protective features of the Ford PCM trying to fight the overly simplified genric Ford derived base tune (ie with things like ignition and boost retard etc).   I could be wrong and I would love to hear informed opinion on the reasons why I am incorrect.  But if my thoughts are accurate, the irony of this debate would be that the Ford tune should be the one getting bagged for its inability to adjust to the variations of the individual engine, more than the SCT derived tunes which are more flexible in the way they learn and accpet feedback from the engine. 

Very well put NightEve. In general I agree with you.

I would also agree with the setiments on the limitations Ford have placed on the factory PCM.

I don't believe that the overboost problem really comes into the equation, as it only happens when the car is cold and within 5 mins of operating it is gone. (I will stand corrected for anyone who experiences something different).

I think the edit basically takes out the limitations that ford have placed on the car

I do still believe that the individual car variances come into the equation, in simplistic terms, some cars are fine on the 10psi and others not. I think this comes down to the individual cars tolerances.

IMHO if I was putting between 30-50rwkw more through my standard car, I would want to make sure even though it works, that it is matched with a custom tune to my T, to ensure no longer term damage, and maximise the ability of the unit.

IMHO if I was putting between 30-50rwkw more through my standard car, I would want to make sure even though it works, that it is matched with a custom tune to my T, to ensure no longer term damage, and maximise the ability of the unit.

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too true!

JB - I agree with you to a certain degree re: custom tune for 10psi, but would have to re-emphasize DW comments in relation to the different tuning parametres that effect performance more than variations in factory components.  I mean, you may be thinking that the two are inextricably linked - and whilst they are - I see that the things like overboost which dramatically alter the performance of the factory tune; and hence contribute to the drastic variances in power output does not appear to be an issue with the SCT genric tunes (in terms of the way the safety features have been modified for these generic tunes). 

To clarify; we all know that the factory protection for increased boost sensed only leaves for a marginal tolerance meaning that under certain driving conditions particular cars are prone to overboost (this is where the factory variances in components may be at its worst in terms of contributing to differences in performance).  As far as my current understanding of the generic tunes employed in the CAPA flasher, the tolerances have been less agressive, although there still remains protective features.  Therefore, we cannot assume that there is some linear relationship between one factory tuned car that was having problems is now going to carry these over onto the 10psi map. 

In fact, I think that much of the variations in the factory performance are greatly due to the aggressive protective features of the Ford PCM trying to fight the overly simplified genric Ford derived base tune (ie with things like ignition and boost retard etc).  I could be wrong and I would love to hear informed opinion on the reasons why I am incorrect.  But if my thoughts are accurate, the irony of this debate would be that the Ford tune should be the one getting bagged for its inability to adjust to the variations of the individual engine, more than the SCT derived tunes which are more flexible in the way they learn and accpet feedback from the engine. 

Before, I get flamed with the instances of people having trouble with the 10psi map, we have to take stock of what we are comparing here (factory lazy 5-6psi versus 10psi).  As was stated a while ago when describing the 10psi map, the safety margin is limited with areas of the tune reaching their ceiling limits (ie duty cycle of injectors, heat soak etc).  Therefore, it would make sense that there is more chance for protection features (such as the "pop" cut some have experienced) to come into play if you tried running this tune under all conditions (fuels, ambient temps, etc).  I believe that how Street Tuner marketed this map was that it was not for long term reliability and more seen as a drag racing type map (please correct me if I am wrong).  The 8psi map on the other hand had more scope to handle with the limits of the engine and therefore could be tuned with more margin (and thus had more scope to "learn" how to best adjust to the individual characterists of the engine - aka component variations and tolerances). 

Having said all that, I can definitely see the benefits of cusom tuning if you want to say always run the 10psi map, or you are keen on modifying for more detailed matching for reliabile and consistent performance - where the margin for error with A/F becomes even more pronouced (ie with the introduction of more variance - eg. additions of coolers, exhausts, air intake etc). 

It is very unfortunate that a few people are having trouble with the 10psi map as it stands - and I would like to see CAPA at least assist them in some way (unlike Ford when there is tuning problems).  Good luck to all those involved:)

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It may well have more to do with the power outputs of the respective maps rather than the tunes themselves.

In my case, the "before" dyno reading was 171rwkw which is obviously on the low side particularly given the filter, CAI and centre muffler mods in place. This would also explain why my car has never suffered from overboost.

Even with the additional approx. 60rwkw achieved with the 10psi map, total rwkw is a safe 230 in respect to injectors / valve springs etc.

It stands to reason that 200rwkw stock T's could be achieving up to 260rwkw with the 10psi tune, in which case Im not surprised if probs. are occuring.........260rwkw is alot for a stocko to handle !!

As I have stated before, mine is running sweet with the 10psi tune and with the dyno showing safe a/f readings I see no reason why a custom tune would be required to ensure reliability.

That being said the SCT appointed tuners here in WA will be having a close look at my CAPA generic tune parametres next week so I guess any fine tuning required can be taken care of then if neccessary.

Assuming that all CAPA 10 psi tunes are the same, and I see no reason why they wouldn't be, I tend to think the 10psi related issues being experienced are reflective of probs with the inherent stock tune / high base power output.

Steve

In my case, the "before" dyno reading was 171rwkw which is obviously on the low side particularly given the filter, CAI and centre muffler mods in place. This would also explain why my car has never suffered from overboost.

Assuming that all CAPA 10 psi tunes are the same, and I see no reason why they wouldn't be, I tend to think the 10psi related issues being experienced are reflective of probs with the inherent stock tune / high base power output.

Steve

Steve from experience the 2nd CAI and exhaust mods have nothing to do with stopping overboost. I have those mods as well as others and still get overboost when the car is cold.

In relation to your other point, that's exactly what I am saying, it's nothing to do with the EDIT tune, but rather the parametres of the base power/tune of that car.

With the differences we are seeing, you then put the 10psi map on which would technically exassibate the variations in power, hence why some are having problems and others not.

My point is also about putting that sort of power through standard components, particulaly with things like injectors and valve springs in which we have also seen much variance form car to car. I would want to know exactly what was going on with 250odd rwkw. There is nothing to indicate to you how the car is coping with that generic tune, without getting it checked.

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In my case, the "before" dyno reading was 171rwkw which is obviously on the low side particularly given the filter, CAI and centre muffler mods in place. This would also explain why my car has never suffered from overboost.

Assuming that all CAPA 10 psi tunes are the same, and I see no reason why they wouldn't be, I tend to think the 10psi related issues being experienced are reflective of probs with the inherent stock tune / high base power output.

Steve

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Steve from experience the 2nd CAI and exhaust mods have nothing to do with stopping overboost. I have those mods as well as others and still get overboost when the car is cold.

In relation to your other point, that's exactly what I am saying, it's nothing to do with the EDIT tune, but rather the parametres of the base power/tune of that car.

With the differences we are seeing, you then put the 10psi map on which would technically exassibate the variations in power, hence why some are having problems and others not.

My point is also about putting that sort of power through standard components, particulaly with things like injectors and valve springs in which we have also seen much variance form car to car. I would want to know exactly what was going on with 250odd rwkw. There is nothing to indicate to you how the car is coping with that generic tune, without getting it checked.

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Steve from experience the 2nd CAI and exhaust mods have nothing to do with stopping overboost. I have those mods as well as others and still get overboost when the car is cold.

Clarification.........170rwkw = no overboost, not 2nd CAI / exhaust mods.

No probs Cob!

At the expense of this looking like a hijack thread on overboost I would add the following (as I think it is particularly relevant in demonstrating the points we all seem to agree on one way or another).

If your car was going to suffer from overboost (or had been), adding less restrictive breathing (ie CAI, cat, etc) to it would increase the chances of it occuring. Remembering an engine is just a big pump and he more air and fuel that its components can allow it to suck through, the more output you will extract (very basic, but for these purposes it will do!!! So and was said above; if you're running a base tune/component set that was on the conversative side, then ofcourse you have better chances of not having ceiling limit restrictions when introducing a generic map of higher spec performance. I just didn't think it could be as easily as imaging there was a direct linear relationship between the base and CAPA tunes if the PCM is able to "learn" to a degree. I suppose it can only "learn" as far as the limits of the componentry will allow when 10psi is trying to be pumped through it (remembering the simple description above). Unfortunately that is why there's a few people who are not able to run their seemingly more efficient base setups with the higher spec 10psi tune without dramas. I would be interested if anyone if having trouble with the 8psi map (that would completely shake up my theory).

I am sure with time and some technical advice from those in the know will see this issue addressed properly.

I will be adding a CAI this afternoon (should be interesting to see if this brings about any problems or only increases performance).

10psi in my T is causing problems

WHEEL SPIN :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Though today I did notice whilst drifting up the road TC wasnt working

The TC indicator stayed lit,I never turned it OFF

Does the TC not work over a certain speed or revs?

ps: Road was dry

anybody looked at a custom tune via email ?

using the quick tune software you can fine tune it yourself,sounds like a good option for me with the mods I intend to do.

heres an email I got today

"Yes it is possible to do a custom tune then send it via email. Providing you have quick tune software so you can load it up to the black box."

I can see a problem here

All the b**ching about the EDIT

I had a tune by FORD the other day................................ NO DYNO

They DONT DYNO EVERY CAR...........my service department doesnt have one

PLUG and PLAY its the way to go FOR NOW!!!!!!!!!

NO FUEL= NO GO

NO OIL =BANG

If you got fuel /air and oil.............WOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

And an EDIT