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Oil pump and timing chain info?


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Hey all,

 

At what KW/ HP did you change your oil pump gears at for an FG MK2 X6T ute 6 speed manual? Like is there a specific HP you need to change them at? 

 

I'm only chasing 500ish hp. 

 

So far my mods are for power are as follows: 

 

1. 4in dump into 3.5 Xforce middle muffle delete

2. 460 Walbro pump

3. Bosch 1000cc injectors

4. Turbosmart actuator 12 psi

5. Antz intercooler piping

6. Antz battery relocation with turbo side intake

7. Autotechnica intercooler (not by choice, came with car, car was stock when I bought it back in October last year, PWR stepped should arrive this week - Covid delays everything)

 

So far the car made 307.69kw (412 hp) at the wheels at 20 PSI (turbo and intercooler maxed out)

 

What I have for upgrade in my house (is this good for 500hp): 

 

Pulsar 3584r

Crow Cams Valve springs

PWR stepped intercooler (should be delivered this week).

 

Will I need or will I only need this if I'm chasing more power?

1. APR head studs 12mm

2. Timing Chain and sprocket 

3. Oil pump gears, backing plate and spring

 

I'm only chasing 500hp at the wheels as if I want to go faster, I'll just jump on my Busa - haha. 

 

Any help or information is very much appreciated.

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You might want to look into getting a softer wastegate spring, as I think the Pulsar 3584rs comes with 14psi worth of spring.

 

I'd suggest doing some work to the short radius of the wastegate exit in the turbine housing, as it is a right angle from factory. I couldn't get it to make less than 25psi at gate pressure with a hectic exhaust system. It might be slightly better with a more restrictive system.

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1 minute ago, Frank Castle 85 said:

Are they that fragile? 

basically, yes... because it's to do with a failure to change gear and a limiter hit... the bounce off the limiter and the ECU feedback on that process puts pressure on the timing chain and can cause it to skip a tooth or put a crack in the timing chain guide which eventually leads to failure.

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yeah, unfortunately Barra's don't love a limiter hit with attempted torque reduction from the ECU... every time you do it there's a chance the above can happen :) upgrading the timing chain, guide and oil pump gears is good insurance against the damage that can be done via this.

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Yeah wicked, makes sense. I don't limiter bash but there could be that one day. haha. Thanks for info. 

 

11 minutes ago, Puffwagon said:

You might want to look into getting a softer wastegate spring, as I think the Pulsar 3584rs comes with 14psi worth of spring.

 

I'd suggest doing some work to the short radius of the wastegate exit in the turbine housing, as it is a right angle from factory. I couldn't get it to make less than 25psi at gate pressure with a hectic exhaust system. It might be slightly better with a more restrictive system.

I'll let you know mate. Hopefully I don't run into the same problems. I'll be swapping out the turbo smart actuator that's on the stock turbo currently, so hopefully that helps.

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even a turbosmart actuator can cause all number of problems if not setup correctly (which is reportedly a bit finnicky to get setup properly and tuned appropriately), but it sounds like yours was doing OK with the actuator as-is, so should be a reasonably simple process to make it work with the turbo you want to use.

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Really? This might explain two things. If I brake boost or at random if I go to overtake someone either in 3rd or 4th, I'm the lucky receiver of codes P0236 and P0238 codes. High boost sensor. I've replaced them a month and this still comes up. I've stopped brake boosting. But I'll only get them while randomly over taking people now. Hopefully an eboost and retune will stop this. lol.This has only happened since the tune.

 

FYI - I erase the codes and the car is good again. I drove from Cairns to Brisbane over two days (Friday and Saturday, as in yesterday) and it only came on once yesterday. The day before a few times, I put this down to how humid the air was haha. It was like driving through water.

Edited by Frank Castle 85
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do you have a boost gauge? 20psi is wayy too much for ~310kw, if that's what your dyno says, it only gives up a bit of info about how bad the tuner is at tuning on the Barra platform.

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If I was you and getting those codes and needing that much boost for that power, I'd be going gentle on the car until you get into another tuner. Sounds like some basics aren't right so makes you wonder what else could be suspect. Last thing you want us a broken motor.

I think most people find about 13ish psi is about right for 300ish on the FG factory turbo.

You shouldn't need an eboost - there's no reason the factory boost control can't be tuned correctly for what you want to do.

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Thanks mate - will do. What would you suggest to replace for boost controller? Noob alert haha. I've been on motorbikes my whole life.

 

1 hour ago, k31th said:

do you have a boost gauge? 20psi is wayy too much for ~310kw, if that's what your dyno says, it only gives up a bit of info about how bad the tuner is at tuning on the Barra platform.

Yeah mate, goes to 20 PSI. Glad I was not the only one that thought that. When they showed me the dyno results, I was like, "How did you get so high in boost but so little in power?" I honestly thought I'd get more. I thought the stock turbo would hold up until at least 400kw?

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The stock FG XR6T turbocharger is not able to get past 320-330 or so on 98 and 340-350 or so on E85, so nah, 400kW isn't going to happen on that smaller turbo (if that's what you've got on your car, which is likely). The BA-BF and FG F6 turbocharger is bigger and can support approx 400 on 98, but that's out of it's efficiency range (same with the figures quoted above for the smaller turbo) and a bit more on E85.

 

You also don't need to replace anything for the boost control until you get way beyond your current goals :)

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Factory ECU has decent boost control which the tuner can manage with the tuning software (PCMTEC, HP Tuners, etc). So if you are paying for a tune you shouldn't need to spend anything on boost control hardware.

Factory FG turbo tops out around 320kw. It is a good, responsive turbo on the Barra though, so if you shoot for more power and go bigger you will trade off a bit of response on the street so depends what you want to use the car for.

Edit: posted same time as Keith but same same. I should have said I was talking 98 not E85

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3 minutes ago, k31th said:

The stock FG XR6T turbocharger is not able to get past 320-330 or so on 98 and 340-350 or so on E85, so nah, 400kW isn't going to happen on that smaller turbo (if that's what you've got on your car, which is likely). The BA-BF and FG F6 turbocharger is bigger and can support approx 400 on 98, but that's out of it's efficiency range (same with the figures quoted above for the smaller turbo) and a bit more on E85.

 

You also don't need to replace anything for the boost control until you get way beyond your current goals :)

Legendary! Thanks mate. Yeah I got the MK2 FG turbo - small. Thanks for being patient. Still learning what the Barra can and can't handle. 

 

So having the Pulsar 3584 is too big or it'll do just fine?

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well, the pulsar GTX3584RS G2 Garret copy version (if that's the one you've got, which I assume it is, based on it's current popularity) is a fairly bigger turbo (at 67mm when the stock is 53mm and the B-series turbo is 61mm) but definitely isn't too big if you want more than 400 at the wheels.

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Yeah it is, I got it for cost price. I've been told and I don't know how true it is, is that they're the rejected Garret ones. But, people seem to be doing just fine with them. If it dies on me, then I'll get the proper Garret one.

 

Have you used BarraMods website for buying parts? I keep seeing that page smashed over the Barra pages on FB and I'm all for supporting Aussie companies, would you recommend?

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I've personally never used that website and don't know anybody who has, but the products and prices seem about market standard from a cursory glance.

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