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DoubleCee33

Boost leak after installing turbo-side induction, why?

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Remove all turbo side intake. Return to stock and then see what happens. Something is definitely wrong.   Turbo side intakes do normally require a re-tune. 

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I can see the bloody boost leak, its right near the turbo where the boosted air comes out.

 

id have it diagnosed/fixed within 10 minutes. You could also have a split pipe near the throttle body as that looks like the original plastic one too.

Edited by skidxr6t

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13 hours ago, arronm said:

Turbo side intakes do normally require a re-tune. 

 I was going to suggest the fact that it hadn't had a tune could actually be the cause however I'm assuming this mechanic had done something about that?  Can we get confirmation on that?

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In regards to it needing to be tuned after the turbo side conversion was done, I have asked both the mechanic that conducted the work and Antz Performance themselves and both are in agreement that because it has never had a performance tune before, theoretically with just the addition of a turbo side induction kit, it shouldn't need one now, on top of that, Antz Performance says that they have never in the entire time they have been producing this kit, have never had anybody complain of this issue, regardless of whether their car has been 100% stock like mine is, or whether it has been extensively modified, so it needing a tune is really a moot point.

 

In regards to Skidz recommendation that it's a leak that is emanating "right near the turbo", every single hose and every single pipe that is leading into and out of that turbocharging unit has been inspected, taken off and then refitted, there is NO leak, three different mechanics have now confirmed that.

 

In regards to having a "sh*tty factory intercooler restricting the flow", I completely agree, but once again according to both the manufacturer and the mechanic the did the installation, these kits are designed to work with factory parts,they were designed assuming that the person installing them had done absolutely no modifications to the vehicle whatsoever.


I will, however, be looking at a bigger intercooler in the coming months, but at this point I don't really have the funds to be able to justify buying anything more than one of those eBay jobbys for $600, and because I live in country Victoria and there isn't a Dyno tuner within my immediate vicinity, I would have to go to Melbourne to get it tuned, that's an entire tank of petrol and that's an entire day off work, on top of the $600 for the unit and however much it would cost to install it.

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Yeah, don't worry about the stock intercooler being a restriction with your stock tune. It's totally 100% fine for that application.

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As I said in my original update last night, they checked the ECU last night, that came back clean, they also checked the catalytic converter just to make sure that there was an an excess build up, that was fine, and today they're checking the wastegate to make sure that that's operating as it should.

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Update: it's NOT the wastegate!

 

During my last update I told you all that the ECU and the wastegate were going to be checked next, both were checked and both came back clean, the wastegate is operating as it should.

 

So just to catch everyone up: every single inch of intercooler and turbo piping has been checked, the ECU and the wastegate has been checked, the catalytic converter has been checked, the battery and the ground wire has been checked and the intercooler itself has been checked, all of the above have been ruled out as the cause.

 

The next step is that my mechanic is now going to talk to a tuner in Melbourne and see if there is any possibility whatsoever that it could just possibly need a tune, this is despite the fact that it has never had a tune before, and according to Antz Performance, the addition of that it doesn't require a tune at all.

 

My mechanic is also ruled out that there could be any internal problem with the turbo itself, this is based on the fact that the turbo was running perfectly fine before the addition of the kit, and now for whatever reason isn't.

 

Both Antz Performance and my mechanics have said that they have never in their entire lives ever seen this issue, and all of the regular things that they would do to fix this issue doesn't apply in this situation.

 

It's definitely confusing stuff and we're no closer to an answer.

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well, yeah, that's not good... if it was boosting fine before the mechanical changes then it won't be the tune, but I guess it's worth checking.

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To be honest, at this point we're just throwing it at the wall and seeing what sticks.

 

I mean, he has checked absolutely every conceivable thing it possibly, is logically could be.

 

The manufacturer has never heard of this problem in all of the years they have been distributing this product, apparently, my bloke called Ford and spoke to one of their technicians and they don't know what it could be outside of what we have already checked.

 

He's going to return it to stock and see how that goes on Monday, but he's 99.9999% sure it's going to do absolutely nothing, in which case it would infer that it is an internal turbo issue, which it can't be because it was working perfectly fine before the conversion.

 

It's honestly been one hell of a headI <3 Bananas for absolutely all involved.

 

The other avenue that we're exploring is that it could possibly be overboost, but considering that the boost has never been moved from stock and the car has never been modified.

The only reason he's saying it possibly needs a tune is because ever since the kit was put in it's slowly developed a bit of a rough idle, and my fuel usage has absolutely skyrocketed, I was getting 12/100, the computer is now saying that's more like 17/100 and my driving style hasn't changed at all.

 

But the ECU has been checked and nothing has changed, a cylinder compression test was conducted to make sure it's not a bottom end issue and all of my cylinders are as they should be.

 

It's one hell of a headI <3 Bananas mate.

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Have checked the boost solenoid connections and have you tried disconnecting it from the compressor housing and run with wastegate closed and see what happens.??

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Update: Returning it to stock it absolutely nothing! 

 

So yesterday my mechanic finally got around to and doing everything he did in relation to the turbo site induction and battery relocation kit, return the car to the exact condition it was in before the induction modifications were done, as some of you guessed, it did absolutely nothing. 

 

Unfortunately we are now in the predicament that we have tested absolutely everything it could possibly be, both logically and illogicality, and unfortunately there is only one component on the entire car left that has not been tested, and that is the turbocharger itself. 

 

The issue with all of this of course is the fact that there was no problem before the induction modifications were done, and now apparently it's a problem that's here to stay. 

 

The turbo will be taken off the car in the next coming days and inspected, but as I have previously said there is no logical way this could have happened and there's absolutely no explanation that anybody can come up with to explain how or why this has happened. 

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ok... so if it's the turbo, then something in the intake has damaged the fins and caused an issue or there's an unfortunate coincidence with some other cause of the turbo failure (most common cause is oil starvation in the Falcon platform).

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I'm central Vic myself.  I am not aware of any tuners or reputable mechanics that would be able to diagnose it any better than yours already has in the area.   It's rapidly starting to sound like a Melbourne job for a mob that regularly does turbo barra's

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Pretty much straight after we figured out that it wasn't a boost leak and then subsequently that it wasn't the waste gate, pretty much from there we figured that it was going to be something we would have to liaise with experts in Melbourne about. 

 

My mechanic is on fairly good terms with the owner of Herrads in Thomastown, apparently 95% of his work is done on FG XR6 turbo's, tuning etc, apparently he has heard of this issue but it is extremely uncommon, so we're going to take the turbo off and if we can't find any issue with it we're going to send it off to him. 

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UPDATE: so it's been a while since I last posted an update on here, and that is because unfortunately not much has really been happening, it's still at the mechanics and they unfortunately still don't know what's going on with it.

 

Last time I updated you all myself and the mechanic were talking about sending the turbo away to a professional performance tuner in Melbourne who fairly well exclusively deals with Barra tuning, since then the entire turbo setup has been taken off the engine and thoroughly checked, just to absolutely make sure that it wasn't wastegate issue we actually bolted another wastegate to the turbo and put it back on, made absolutely no difference whatsoever.

 

My mechanic says that the next step over the next week will be too plum the turbo directly onto the engine itself, no intercooler or anything like that, and see if it actually makes boost, at this point we're both trying absolutely everything we conceivably can before we admit defeat and send it off to the specialist, but at this time it's looking like the most likely cause is going to somehow be the turbocharger unit itself, which as we all agree absolutely defies logic because there was no issue with that turbo before the turbo side induction kit was installed.

 

Current on hoist time is sitting at around 60 hours worth of labour, it's now been roughly 4 being roughly 4 and a half weeks.

 

I will continue updating this thread and till we do get a definite answer, but at this point it's still the process of elimination, the only problem with that is there is only one more component to be eliminated and nobody believes that that's actually the problem.

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To be absolutely honest, if I had a crystal ball and I could foresee that I was going to have these issues prior to buying the turbo side induction kit, I would have never done it in a million years.

Credit to Antz performance though, they have been more than willing to help whenever I send them a message and they have never ducked the issue, they of course did get a little bit defensive when I asked them what their refund policy was going to be if I returned the car to stock and it turned out there was an issue with their product, but I don't think anybody seriously thought that returning the car to stock would actually change anything.

 

Graham, mine mechanic, has actually been really good about it, he doesn't know how much all of this is going to cost when we do eventually figure out what the issue is going to be, but he has said that he would be willing to put the final figure on a payment plan, that's how much it's probably going to wind up being, that's partly why we're trying to avoid sending the turbocharger away to the professionals in Melbourne, because obviously I haven't paid a cent for any of this work yet and they're obviously going to want to be paid for whatever they do, which is completely understandable, but going on what Graham charges, the bill is estimated to currently be somewhere around the $5,000 mark, which at this point it would have probably just been cheaper to buy a brand new Turbo straight from the get-go.

 

I'm going to ring him on Friday and see how his experiment bolting the turbo straight to the engine goes, but we both agree that if that doesn't work and we don't get the answers we want we're going to have to send it away to get checked before we talk about buying a new Turbo or even a second-hand turbo just for the meantime.

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Car needs to go to an expert for correct diagnoses.  Your mechanic is obviously lacking if its taken this long...

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I can completely understand why people would assume that, but I have to disagree, he is probably one of the more qualified mechanics in central Victoria, the bloke build his own engines for the race cars he races at tournaments like Springnats, Summernats, he also apparently does a fair bit of sprint car competition, and that's just him, he also hires three mechanics and between them all there is almost 300 years worth of mechanical experience, they're calling this one of the most frustrating jobs they have ever had to do in their entire careers, everything that the problem should be, it isn't, everything that it conceivably could be has been double checked and triple checked, they are being extremely thorough...

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