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ken666

ZF 6 speed full manual valvebody??

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Hi guys, I'm just playing with a few ideas and possible options in the gearbox world as a future project to build up, and fit to my BA XR6t.....

I have just gotten home (more like limped home with my tail between my legs!) from working away, and have had to order another new clutch kit to fit before I have to drive it back to work on Friday arvo..

Suddenly while accelerating in 6th while driving up some steep mountains near Wollongong, my clutch started to slip as the turbo spooled up past 15psi..

The clutch it has fitted is a twin plate ceramic Exedy unit, that is only 5-6 months old???

Yes, the car is running some pretty serious power and torque (612hp at the treads on 20psi)..........

But 6 MONTHS lifespan at that expense??

 

So once I fit the replacement Mantic TRACK MULTIPLATE CLUTCH KIT, I will be looking at my options for changing the transmission to something auto.

I understand there are plenty of super strong 3 speed conversions available.

But since the car is driven 600Km every week to work and is a daily driver, I need the extra legs of the overdrive gear(s).

As the final drive has been dropped to 4.1:1 to help negotiate driving in Sydney peak hour traffic (and help keep the RPM snappy enough to minimise turbo lag!), so a 3 speed is out of the question.

 

What exactly is the compatibility issues with fitting a ZF auto into a BA?

I know that the ecu and possibly the wiring would need to be changed to something from a BF donor, and I would even expect the possibility of a tailshaft swap?

But these parts are not all that expensive to source..

So why do I read posts that claim it would cost the best part of $10,000 to do the conversion?

What am I missing?

 

I have even toyed with the idea of having a ZF fully manualised? 

I know that its electronically controlled, but is there a way of running either a stand alone computer to control the box? 

Or can it be physically modified with a full manual valvebody like earlier C4's, turbo 400's etc?

 

I know very little about modern ford transmissions and possible modifications to them, so any technical advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers Ken

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Hey mate, I believe you would need to buy a wrecked BF with a ZF as you are right about needing the wiring. The tailshaft would also be different, which id take the one from the donor car to get beefed up.

 

It may be easier buying a sweet BF and transferring your goodies onto it if you aren't too attached to your BA.

 

In regards to having it fully manualised, haven't heard of this. just get the box beefed up by a reputable builder (will depend what state you are in) and have it tuned properly. Then run it in manual mode like @discostig who preaches the manual mode lyf

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25 minutes ago, ken666 said:

can it be physically modified with a full manual valvebody like earlier C4's, turbo 400's etc?

Anything is possible but no. Even if it could, it'd still be hybrid manual electric, but you wouldn't need to, as you can manually choose a minimum of 2 gears at any speed and in some cases up to 5 different gears at a steady speed. 80kph will let you select anything from 2nd to 6th and in normal driving will downshift multiple gears when flooring it.

 

You also don't need an external controller as the stock ecu is the best option for it by a long shot.

 

29 minutes ago, ken666 said:

why do I read posts that claim it would cost the best part of $10,000 to do the conversion?

More than likely paying someone to do it for you, including getting it built and tuned.

 

32 minutes ago, ken666 said:

these parts are not all that expensive to source..

Even if you source all the parts yourself and then drop it all off to get properly built, installed and tuned you won't have a lot of change from 10k.

 

40 minutes ago, ken666 said:

What exactly is the compatibility issues with fitting a ZF auto into a BA?

@NA_TURBO might answer this.

 

41 minutes ago, ken666 said:

I understand there are plenty of super strong 3 speed conversions available.

But since the car is driven 600Km every week to work and is a daily driver, I need the extra legs of the overdrive gear(s).

Gear Vendors. Check out their website. It won't be cheap though when you include the cost of a sufficiently well built 3 speed install. Either that or install a different diff ratio.

 

49 minutes ago, ken666 said:

Suddenly while accelerating in 6th while driving up some steep mountains near Wollongong, my clutch started to slip

Maybe pick a different gear next time. You might find that the clutch isn't stuffed yet. Haha that might just be me being optimistic though.

 

All of that bs aside, if the clutch is toast, you're probably better off buying a decent clutch and calling it a day.

 

Or....

 

3 minutes ago, skidxr6t said:

It may be easier buying a sweet BF and transferring your goodies onto it if you aren't too attached to your BA.

Hope that helps mate. The info for installing a zf is on the forum though, and old mate that I tagged might link a thread or two or whatever.

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Not sure about comparability issues for a ZF in a BA but I can imagine that you would need the complete engine/trans/body harness from a BF donor car as well as BCM and possibly dash cluster and ICC as the BF uses a CANBUS system to communicate.

Personally I'd swap your current setup into a BF with a 6 speed as it would probably be less work.

Depending on power you're after you could change to a Glide or equivalent gearbox but you'd be looking at around the 10k mark

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Depends how you've driven it. If you've been daily driving a ceramic plate clutch and slipping it a fair bit it probably is shagged.

Helps to get a clutch designed for the kind of driving you do. Race style clutches won't last too long in street conditions.

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Cheers guys, I ended up buying a Mantic Track twin plate organic kit from Mantic.

It is designed to handle over 1200nm of torque and up to 1000hp, but will be a lot more streetable than the ceramic type clutches.

It includes a lightweight solid mass billet steel flywheel, twin centre sprung organic plates, alloy lightweight pressure plate and all other associated parts.

 

I bought the car with the ceramic clutches already fitted, but never liked the feel from the day I got it.

I assume that it was installed as the cheaper option to the organic type kit?

 

I have considered the option of upgrading to a ZF fitted model, and swapping my parts over... but I keep coming back to the same conclusion.

That this BA is probably one of the best examples of this model I have seen, and I can't bring myself to letting it go and starting out again on another car.

I am confident that I have almost sorted out all of the typical issues that are associated with modifying a car so extensively, and am confident that it will be as reliable as when it left the factory.

Everything from engine internals to input shaft, and the rest of the driveline/shafts etc has been upgraded now to handle around 850hp, and 1300nm of torque.

So hopefully the driveability should be improved once the new clutch is fitted...

 

Next step is to fit a new GTX3582R with upgraded racing billet compressor wheel, a pair of custom grind cams from Crow and a couple of different custom tunes with 16 & 21psi  on the dyno. (might even go higher if the tuner feels it's safe?) 

Cant wait to see what sort of numbers it will make with all of the mods finally done?

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