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Future of Site - Discussion

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17 hours ago, k31th said:

The site is worth far more than that, but you can PM/email the OP your offers of purchasing, if you feel like throwing your cash around :idunno:

 

It's worth more than that? Based on declining viewership and contribution, and a member-distributed email stating that the site costs more to run than it makes in ad revenue? Followed by opening it up for discussion to get users to donate money to the cause? I'm not one to use logic too often - but that would fly in the face of any common sense that I'm aware of. I'd love to see your positioning and justification for such a statement. I'll throw more money at it if it's seen to legitimately be worth more. It's only money.

 

You fired shots across my bow because I raised concerns that plague not only FXT, but MOST bulletin-based forums on the internet. hardtuned.net (nissansilvia.com), rexnet.com.au, carandimage.com, rslibertyclub.org, liberty.asn.au... all of them have suffered, or are in the throws of, a distended demise. The issue is that the mechanism that got people to your site 10 years ago isn't the same mechanism that will ensure your future success.

 

You might not like my attitude, most people don't. But it's led me to be very successful traversing through the online space and turning flailing businesses into burgeoning success stories that reignited a flame amongst the community.

 

You want some free advice? Distribute an email in confidence to the 15-20 most active and influential members (because that's what I'd do). Float the concept that they need to encourage discussion (firstly, because discussion means page views in the first instance [read: $$$$'s], and secondly it encourages new members to discuss things and that in turn generates more page views in a compound fashion). It's perfectly okay for somebody to have an opposing viewpoint to you without you turning to childish namecalling and "you shouldn't be here" remarks.

 

Stop being such a petty, whiny little bitch about your feelings (with that attitude, nobody wants you around... blah blah blah). Look at the damn facts in front of you. The owner is raising a white flag saying "something's gotta change here, and I'm open to suggestions". You seem to be of the opinion that nothing should change, and everything is fine just the way it is. Open your own damned chequebook if this forum is so emotionally connected to you and pay the "more than $10k" that it's worth - then you can run it into the ground in your own fashion.

 

The irony is that this whole discussion is the most active thread in a long time (engaging members of old and new), and you're attempting to immediately shut down discussion that goes down a path you don't feel comfortable with. Do you see the problem there?

 

Feel free to ban me, delete my posts, etc etc. The usual crap that people do to avoid confronting a burning issue. I've already started downloading all of the content (for many months now) to ensure the technical information never ends up in the "once were warriors" recycling bin of the internet. But I'd only action such an outcome if the site went offline one day, never to be seen again. So don't get your knickers in a knot; it's a backup plan that you'd be grateful for.

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Could we maybe expand the forum to include vehicles that have Barra coversions? 

 

It would increase the knowledge base and expand the audience.

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15 minutes ago, HI PSI said:

Could we maybe expand the forum to include vehicles that have Barra coversions? 

 

It would increase the knowledge base and expand the audience.

 

 

There have been a fair few conversion threads.

 

Dedicated subforum sounds like a very good idea though:)

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47 minutes ago, jellis said:

It's worth more than that?... Open your own damned chequebook if this forum is so emotionally connected to you and pay the "more than $10k" that it's worth - then you can run it into the ground in your own fashion

Yes, it's worth more than that because it's not for sale and the party who could sell it hasn't sold it to you already for that price, not based on any ROI calculations you may want to make. It has intrinsic and inherent value, even if you can't appreciate that. I'm not the owner, the OP is, so why would I be the one considering to buy it when I'm happy with the current ownership arrengment?

 

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... I raised concerns that plague... all of them have suffered, or are in the throws of, a distended demise. The issue is that the mechanism that got people to your site 10 years ago isn't the same mechanism that will ensure your future success.

We are absolutely aware that the advertisement and local businesses support both are not great options going forward, hence this thread is a discussion of options going forward that don't include either of those options.

 

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... my attitude... it's led me to be very successful traversing through the online space and turning flailing businesses into burgeoning success stories that reignited a flame amongst the community.

Talk is cheap. It's very easy to say this without any evidence to back it up. Sounds like :bs: to me. 

 

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It's perfectly okay for somebody to have an opposing viewpoint to you without you turning to childish namecalling and "you shouldn't be here" remarks.

Stop being such a petty, whiny little bitch about your feelings (with that attitude, nobody wants you around... blah blah blah).

Nobody said you shouldn't be here; nice straw man. The irony is that you come in here saying that you think we're childish and then offer to buy the place to fix it, then when that offer is rejected, you come back calling us all names again. I think you need to step back and take a good hard look at yourself.

 

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Look at the damn facts in front of you. The owner is raising a white flag saying "something's gotta change here, and I'm open to suggestions". You seem to be of the opinion that nothing should change, and everything is fine just the way it is. .

 

The irony is that this whole discussion is the most active thread in a long time (engaging members of old and new), and you're attempting to immediately shut down discussion that goes down a path you don't feel comfortable with. Do you see the problem there?

Wrong with all of that, except for engaging a couple of old members. Firstly, there are other equally or larger active threads, currently. Secondly, I'm definitely not shutting it down as I was the one who suggested to the owner to have this discussion. This is why there's no problem here, only your attitude towards this community.

 

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Feel free to ban me... it's a backup plan that you'd be grateful for.

Why would we ban (or any of the other stuff up there mentioned) you for having an opinion on a topic that we're gathering opinions on? That's not something that happens around here :)

 

We already backup the forum regularly, so we don't need your help in archiving it. Thanks, anyway.

 

... 

 

Engagement is just a matter of making the place well known (it already is, for the most part, among the people who we want to join in on this site), then making it worthwhile coming to (it already is, for a multitude of reasons) and then make the worthwhile reasons sustainable and easy accessible. Those things are all much easier said than done and you (or anybody else) choosing to buy this forum, would not help with any of it. 


Your attitude towards the current interested members and their community atmosphere is what we have not liked about what you've said. Your input is valuable, but it's nothing we haven't already thought of or considered.

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No offer was rejected, as it was never reasonably considered nor discussed. Backing up my claims of "I've done well" with "here are some examples"? Who would care? And big-noting oneself by parading previous achievements in completely unrelated fields isn't going to endear me to anybody. I'm not here to win votes.

 

Engagement is just a matter of making the place well known... which you immediately follow up with "it already is". So let's check that box.

 

... making it worthwhile coming to... also check that box as "it already is" per your comment.

 

... make the worthwhile reasons sustainable and easy [sic] accessible. It's on the internet (on HA and scalable infrastructure); you put in an email address and a password of your choosing and you can see pretty much everything. So let's check that box as well.

 

As far as your recipe for success goes; it would appear everything is already in place. And don't conflate your own opinions with the collective "we". Given your recipe has been executed to nearly 100% - where are the balloons and confetti for celebrating a job-well-done?

 

You might back the forum up regularly, I don't think I've misunderstood that part nor alluded to any other behaviour. Rexnet was backed up regularly as well. You see where I'm going with that?

 

It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it (not the other way around). You've heard of a free market economy?

 

My attitude towards the current interested members and the community is that they need a champion to push their cause forward in a perilous market, and not somebody to rest on their laurels. Establishing pre-negotiated discounts and benefits not afforded to newcomers or those uninvolved. Advancement of understanding and experience amongst like-minded and free-spirited enthusiasts. Leveraging the market penetration sought by new vendors in the marketplace... basic branding, market positioning... etc etc.

 

People need someone who is going to advocate for their cause and passion. Bringing fresh minds into the fold boosts the status of those in before them, and on and on the pattern develops. Setting up some new subforums or putting a paywall on something that people have always gotten for free... it's just putting a bandaid on a shotgun wound.

 

I've enjoyed this (mostly) respectful discourse. Money is the thing that talks, though. The aforementioned bullsh*t walks.

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Hey I think we should keep it free so anyone can access it. I'd never have joined if I had to pay I reckon.  But I also know it costs money to run.  I for one wouldn't mind donating once a year in a philanthropic fashion now that I know how valuable this site has been to my well-being (mates, good times, car passions) as I suspect some would on here (but not as an enforced membership so if I was having any hardship in donating I wouldn't have to.) I would also like to see the site running costs looked into by Chris and select few others who know this stuff well to see if there was a better way of hosting the site without need for advertisers and so we can just run off the philanthropic donations.  Alot of good enthusiasts sites out there today are there due to the philanthropy of their owners and Chris is definitely one of those people in my mind.  I want to help him out continue the good work because I am lucky enough to be able to afford to.  But I do want to keep the site free to encourage people to benefit from it. Thanks :beerchug:

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3 minutes ago, EvilDaifu said:

Hey I think we should keep it free so anyone can access it. I'd never have joined if I had to pay I reckon.  

 

^^I am with Doctor Evil ^^

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29 minutes ago, k31th said:

I'm not the owner, the OP is, so why would I be the one considering to buy it when I'm happy with the current ownership arrengment?

 

I do also need to just address this one, briefly. I'm sure you're happy defending your right to be a BDFL (parading it around as altruism) around these parts when it's on somebody else's dime.

 

As much as I enjoy your thoughtful prose, I'm not even sure why I felt the need to justify my position. $10,000 offer stands; and all members (old and new) will see benefit within 12 months (assuming they've still got their turbskies).

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If we remove the need for advertisers as has been suggested, apart from banning people, what would prevent people advertising their tyres, car parts and dyno services etc, either directly or indirectly?

 

While keeping it free is great for everyone and in some cases necessary for some users, surely users who benefit financially from posting their "wares" should contribute more, given a lack of advertising revenue?

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6 minutes ago, Puffwagon said:

While keeping it free is great for everyone and in some cases necessary for some users, surely users who benefit financially from posting their "wares" should contribute more, given a lack of advertising revenue?

Agree.

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Gee , for me its pretty simple, if you enjoy the forum, just contribute a few bucks. Who cant afford $20 once in a while....

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45 minutes ago, jellis said:

No offer was rejected, as it was never reasonably considered nor discussed. ... It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it (not the other way around). You've heard of a free market economy?

You are technically correct. I'm reasonably confident that the site is both not for sale and that he would not sell it to you unless something ridiculous was offered. But of course, I can't know for sure.

 

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Backing up my claims of "I've done well" with "here are some examples"? Who would care? And big-noting oneself by parading previous achievements in completely unrelated fields isn't going to endear me to anybody. I'm not here to win votes.

Well, if you're going to claim you can do it, then you'd have to win the community's heart and mind specifically in the case you that you would do it. It's up to you, the person who has claimed a large positive influence, to prove such influence. I don't care, either way.

 

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Engagement is just a matter of making the place well known... which you immediately follow up with "it already is". So let's check that box.

 

... making it worthwhile coming to... also check that box as "it already is" per your comment.

 

... make the worthwhile reasons sustainable and easy [sic] accessible. It's on the internet (on HA and scalable infrastructure); you put in an email address and a password of your choosing and you can see pretty much everything. So let's check that box as well.

 

As far as your recipe for success goes; it would appear everything is already in place. And don't conflate your own opinions with the collective "we". Given your recipe has been executed to nearly 100% - where are the balloons and confetti for celebrating a job-well-done?

Well, amongst the people who have these cars already and google searching results, this site is already well known, so yes, that's true that we don't need to do a lot of work in that area, only sustain what we currently do.

I said it "for the most part" for the worthwhile coming to, so that point can definitely take some work.

It is reasonably easily accessible, but most people don't save their bookmarks across devices from so many years ago and then it's a matter of typing the URL and I know only those who already like the site, will type it's URL (or other weird side cases). This is the part that I see that needs work, but I don't know of many good options in this area, but they can be attacked in a separate thread. I'm not using my opinions here, just statistics, analytics and data in the back-end.

 

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You might back the forum up regularly, I don't think I've misunderstood that part nor alluded to any other behaviour. Rexnet was backed up regularly as well. You see where I'm going with that?

Yep, I understand where you're going with that. It's just a matter of restoring said backups, in our case, with the new "environment" setup, if it ever went away and needed to be restored into a new setup. Don't see any problems there, other than the backup provider losing all of their hardware in a freak physical accident :idunno:

 

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My attitude towards the current interested members and the community is that they need a champion to push their cause forward in a perilous market, and not somebody to rest on their laurels. Establishing pre-negotiated discounts and benefits not afforded to newcomers or those uninvolved. Advancement of understanding and experience amongst like-minded and free-spirited enthusiasts. Leveraging the market penetration sought by new vendors in the marketplace... basic branding, market positioning... etc etc.

 

People need someone who is going to advocate for their cause and passion. Bringing fresh minds into the fold boosts the status of those in before them, and on and on the pattern develops.

Glad that you've actually given some actual positive attitude now, rather than the scathing points brought up earlier. This stuff you've said here is valuable thought patterns, I think. Cheers.

 

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Setting up some new subforums or putting a paywall on something that people have always gotten for free... it's just putting a bandaid on a shotgun wound.

I agree. I think the site should be simplified so that the landing page is not so cluttered and hard to navigate.

 

32 minutes ago, jellis said:

I do also need to just address this one, briefly. I'm sure you're happy defending your right to be a BDFL (parading it around as altruism) around these parts when it's on somebody else's dime.

Benevolent Dictator For Life? lol ok. Well, you can mis-read me all you like :) I just want the best for this forum and I'm happy to do some work in my own time to manage that and happy to throw around my own experience, skills and internet knowledge to help :spoton:

 

 

30 minutes ago, Puffwagon said:

If we remove the need for advertisers as has been suggested, apart from banning people, what would prevent people advertising their tyres, car parts and dyno services etc, either directly or indirectly?

 

While keeping it free is great for everyone and in some cases necessary for some users, surely users who benefit financially from posting their "wares" should contribute more, given a lack of advertising revenue?

We already restrict selling of items, lest this site become a "buy, swap & sell" only site haha

Personally, my opinion, is that if we have no site sponsors/advertisers, then anybody who is looking to make a profit via this site will be prevented from doing so, which is just standard moderation/administration practices that we currently do for any people who try to do this sort of thing who are not currently a paying advertiser.

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I don't want to appear rude or unappreciative of this sites owner, but 
If this was my site and I could not afford $500 per year then it would be time to hand it to someone who could
Had to chip in here. The site hosting costs it is on a dedicated server costs over $300 a month without any upgrades, modifications, add ons.

I can assure you this is no cash grab. If it cost $500 a year we would not be having this conversation as advertising would cover the costs more than enough. But we are not.

I think we need to be factual here and not detract from the purpose. I have had offers in the past (in excess of hundreds of thousands of dollars for the site) in which I refused due to the fact that I wanted to keep the community intact. But when it’s coming out of my pocket monthly to keep it afloat, whilst as others have other expenses I need to entertain the option of keeping it running and whether it is indeed worth it.

Thanks all for your comments, it was purely a way to look at the sustainability of the site moving forward.

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As I said above, you want the forum to continue, give a few bucks. If you dont care dont and it will likely shutdown.

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18 minutes ago, CJF077 said:

Had to chip in here. The site hosting costs it is on a dedicated server costs over $300 a month without any upgrades, modifications, add ons.

I can assure you this is no cash grab. If it cost $500 a year we would not be having this conversation as advertising would cover the costs more than enough. But we are not.

I think we need to be factual here and not detract from the purpose. I have had offers in the past (in excess of hundreds of thousands of dollars for the site) in which I refused due to the fact that I wanted to keep the community intact. But when it’s coming out of my pocket monthly to keep it afloat, whilst as others have other expenses I need to entertain the option of keeping it running and whether it is indeed worth it.

Thanks all for your comments, it was purely a way to look at the sustainability of the site moving forward.

I can appreciate your position. It's a challenge to keep your heart in something that gets so unceremoniously usurped by a heartless and, arguably, soul stealing entity (being the Faceballs).

 

I wish you lots of luck running through the ideas and am more than happy to look at assistance in the technical arena, should the need arise (I'm a cloud engineer, specialising in HA and scalable infrastructure, currently contracted to the state government for their highest volume site). I expect you've got more than enough technical expertise around you - but the offer stands. I don't want FXT to go anywhere; there's minted information here.

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I don't have an issue with a subscription based model or a yearly to keep the site up.  Only suggestion I have is to make it crazy easy to sign up (ie, paypal or similar)

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I reckon we should get a list of proper regulars and see who's happy to pay what. Would be a good start, considering most of us are happy to donate by the looks of it.

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I think that once you post a pic on facebook, it is no longer your pic. facebook owns it.

I will never trust facebook with any of my details.

a private server is the way to go.

didnt realize this site was in a bit of strife.

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Patreon can be anything you want to pledge per month (starting at $1 per month, from memory)

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Having ran my own forums for years I would always share the invoices for site costs which people were more than happy to contribute to. No set fee just whatever you could. Xenforo licence + unlimited yearly hosting + name was under $200 a year.

Also had a marketplace with a reasonable capped commission to sell. 

The bare minimum of rules. Swearing and sh*t hanging allowed. 

Also changed to a social media software platform as opposed to the flat bulletin board style. 

Bans were only given out when a certain percentage of users had ignored/blocked that person.

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