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Future of Site - Discussion

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3 hours ago, Headsex said:

I don't want to sound negative here, but being in the hosting business I've got a fair idea on what sort of costs are associated to run a high volume site.

Moreso that over the last 15 years, that price has significantly dropped due to massive competition.

 

If you take into account the renewal cost of the Invision forum software with all features, 6 monthly renewals of "all invision" features is less than $20AU a month.

Given that the volume of traffic to this site has considerably dropped over the years, you could potentially run this site on a shared web host (like crazydomains) that provides php and mysql with unlimited disk space for less than the license renewal monthly costs.

 

Even if you needed more grunt with a VPS server to run it all would be well and truly under $150/M, which is the asking monthly price of a single Advertiser, it feels to me a little like a cash grab.

 

Even the Invision cloud based plans are quite cheap, and can be scaled to suit the active users. As a bonus, they do all patching/upgrades for you.

 

Sure there is other costs like domain name, ssl certificate (https/ssl is broken by the way), but none the less, costs associated can be compared to a couple of coffees

 

If this forum's running cost are over $500 a year, you're certainly doing something wrong.

^^this^^

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2 minutes ago, arronm said:

The golden years were 2007 - 2011. Really changed after the last major upgrade..

up to 2013, I reckon.

 

We can get back there. But we are looking back with rose-coloured glasses. More member participation, but it wasn't necessarily "better".

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3 hours ago, Headsex said:

If this forum's running cost are over $500 a year, you're certainly doing something wrong.

 

 

3 hours ago, k31th said:

The hosting situation can be made cheaper. This is why I definitely believe we can make this a crowd-supported website 

 

I don't want to appear rude or unappreciative of this sites owner, but 

If this was my site and I could not afford $500 per year then it would be time to hand it to someone who could 

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that's because the current arrangement is likely a lot more than Danny quoted, even if it's possible to set it up so that it is as Danny quoted, with a bit of stuffing around...

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up to 2013, I reckon.
 
We can get back there. But we are looking back with rose-coloured glasses. More member participation, but it wasn't necessarily "better".


You’re right, the cars were new, the biggest and the best drove the forum.

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I joined this forum many years ago and enjoyed many discussions as a forum member and then as a forum advertiser, I made the decision to cease my support as an advertiser because I simply never had any spare time to monitor my page and contribute.

This forum enjoyed huge growth in the early years with many friendships and business relationships forged, sure there were some stooges as in most forums but these people soon went by the wayside.

Even now this is the first time that I have been on here in ages, I hope the forum stays and people can continue to discuss all facets of these remarkable vehicles.

All the Best,  Mal Wood

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The XR6 Turbo is dead. Members with social connections will always be here but new members will be hard to come by and more likely than not they will be at the lower end of the income scale. As the cars come down in price it won't make sense to spend big money to upgrade them and the budget builds and tunes (probably) will begin. There is a huge amount of information here about these cars, best on the net. However, if it comes down to money, virtually no one will care or know if the site is lost forever. In the end as said by a few, someone will need to put their hand up. Just 2c

 

There are some great members here, really nice folk.

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Lots of numbers quoted as to what the minimum cost could/should be to run a site like this and some pretty bold statements of it being a cash grab!  I have no doubt that Chris has had an awful lot of enjoyment out of his cars and what this site has brought to that.  However, if you look at all the hours that Chris has put in to this site v. the revenue stream, in anyone's eyes, it would have to be a pretty sh*tty business model.  People tend not to do this to make money, they do it because it furthers the endeavours in motorsport, car development and a community of car freaks with the XR6T flavour.

 

I would fully support the user pays monthly or 6 monthly fee to keep this afloat and to bring it back to a model that is financially sustainable.  

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13 hours ago, adams355 said:

The XR6 Turbo is dead. Members with social connections will always be here but new members will be hard to come by and more likely than not they will be at the lower end of the income scale. As the cars come down in price it won't make sense to spend big money to upgrade them and the budget builds and tunes (probably) will begin. There is a huge amount of information here about these cars, best on the net. However, if it comes down to money, virtually no one will care or know if the site is lost forever. In the end as said by a few, someone will need to put their hand up. Just 2c

 

There are some great members here, really nice folk.

 

??? The XR6 Turbo falcon is certainly not dead, I hate to say it but have a quick look on FB with all the development and workshops pushing the barra & falcon further and further. 

IMHO, Introducing a joining fee would most certainly immediately cease growth with new members, and it would just be the regulars still on here. The fact is the younger generation simply do not use forums, Instead they post in groups like Club FG LOL, I'm 22 and would probably be one the youngest active members on here, I have been using forums since 2008 (RC Cars / Speedway etc) Young people don't like to search the internet instead they will just post it on a Facebook group looking for an immediate answer rather than looking on a forum like this where the same topic has already been covered 10x over.

 

#keepitfree

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I'm happy to pay a nominal fee as I value the technical information and shared experiences this site is so rich in. As a resource it is amazing, and one that I've used and referred people to many times. Social media has its place but there's no way I'd use Facebook or any other social platform for the kind of info searches and research I want to do. Perhaps there's a role for some social media pages too, as a home for some of the chit chat stuff?? 

 

Should we try to get / keep the costs down, absolutely. Should we strive to remain compassionate / helpful / respectful in the discussions.....of course. But the world isn't perfect and everyone slips up every now and then. Our moderators have done a pretty good job in managing this over the years.

 

The Barra is going stronger than ever as far as development and modding goes, and will be around for many more years to come. If this site was to go, it would be a significant loss to many in my view.

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47 minutes ago, tazzanz said:

IMHO, Introducing a joining fee would most certainly immediately cease growth with new members

 

My thoughts too - would prefer a voluntary method of supporting the site that's more consistent than the occasional donating option that's up at the moment.

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How about we just chuck in $10 or $20 on our birthdays? An automated "Happy Birthday mate, it's your shout!" message can be sent to members as a reminder.

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1 hour ago, tazzanz said:

??? The XR6 Turbo falcon is certainly not dead, I hate to say it but have a quick look on FB with all the development and workshops pushing the barra & falcon further and further.

Its dead to the general buying public, its only enthusiasts and after market developments which will keep it alive, same story as the Holden V8 (aussie). Even these numbers will dwindle in time. The tuners will still tune but are already moving on to the mustang etc.

 

#keepitfree

Edited by adams355

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37 minutes ago, Puffwagon said:

How about we just chuck in $10 or $20 on our birthdays? An automated "Happy Birthday mate, it's your shout!" message can be sent to members as a reminder.

 

I offered a LARGE donation every birthday to become a PLATINUM member. Never happened SO.... What happened CHRIS.....

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17 hours ago, k31th said:

The site is worth far more than that, but you can PM/email the OP your offers of purchasing, if you feel like throwing your cash around :idunno:

 

It's worth more than that? Based on declining viewership and contribution, and a member-distributed email stating that the site costs more to run than it makes in ad revenue? Followed by opening it up for discussion to get users to donate money to the cause? I'm not one to use logic too often - but that would fly in the face of any common sense that I'm aware of. I'd love to see your positioning and justification for such a statement. I'll throw more money at it if it's seen to legitimately be worth more. It's only money.

 

You fired shots across my bow because I raised concerns that plague not only FXT, but MOST bulletin-based forums on the internet. hardtuned.net (nissansilvia.com), rexnet.com.au, carandimage.com, rslibertyclub.org, liberty.asn.au... all of them have suffered, or are in the throws of, a distended demise. The issue is that the mechanism that got people to your site 10 years ago isn't the same mechanism that will ensure your future success.

 

You might not like my attitude, most people don't. But it's led me to be very successful traversing through the online space and turning flailing businesses into burgeoning success stories that reignited a flame amongst the community.

 

You want some free advice? Distribute an email in confidence to the 15-20 most active and influential members (because that's what I'd do). Float the concept that they need to encourage discussion (firstly, because discussion means page views in the first instance [read: $$$$'s], and secondly it encourages new members to discuss things and that in turn generates more page views in a compound fashion). It's perfectly okay for somebody to have an opposing viewpoint to you without you turning to childish namecalling and "you shouldn't be here" remarks.

 

Stop being such a petty, whiny little bitch about your feelings (with that attitude, nobody wants you around... blah blah blah). Look at the damn facts in front of you. The owner is raising a white flag saying "something's gotta change here, and I'm open to suggestions". You seem to be of the opinion that nothing should change, and everything is fine just the way it is. Open your own damned chequebook if this forum is so emotionally connected to you and pay the "more than $10k" that it's worth - then you can run it into the ground in your own fashion.

 

The irony is that this whole discussion is the most active thread in a long time (engaging members of old and new), and you're attempting to immediately shut down discussion that goes down a path you don't feel comfortable with. Do you see the problem there?

 

Feel free to ban me, delete my posts, etc etc. The usual crap that people do to avoid confronting a burning issue. I've already started downloading all of the content (for many months now) to ensure the technical information never ends up in the "once were warriors" recycling bin of the internet. But I'd only action such an outcome if the site went offline one day, never to be seen again. So don't get your knickers in a knot; it's a backup plan that you'd be grateful for.

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Could we maybe expand the forum to include vehicles that have Barra coversions? 

 

It would increase the knowledge base and expand the audience.

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15 minutes ago, HI PSI said:

Could we maybe expand the forum to include vehicles that have Barra coversions? 

 

It would increase the knowledge base and expand the audience.

 

 

There have been a fair few conversion threads.

 

Dedicated subforum sounds like a very good idea though:)

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47 minutes ago, jellis said:

It's worth more than that?... Open your own damned chequebook if this forum is so emotionally connected to you and pay the "more than $10k" that it's worth - then you can run it into the ground in your own fashion

Yes, it's worth more than that because it's not for sale and the party who could sell it hasn't sold it to you already for that price, not based on any ROI calculations you may want to make. It has intrinsic and inherent value, even if you can't appreciate that. I'm not the owner, the OP is, so why would I be the one considering to buy it when I'm happy with the current ownership arrengment?

 

Quote

... I raised concerns that plague... all of them have suffered, or are in the throws of, a distended demise. The issue is that the mechanism that got people to your site 10 years ago isn't the same mechanism that will ensure your future success.

We are absolutely aware that the advertisement and local businesses support both are not great options going forward, hence this thread is a discussion of options going forward that don't include either of those options.

 

Quote

... my attitude... it's led me to be very successful traversing through the online space and turning flailing businesses into burgeoning success stories that reignited a flame amongst the community.

Talk is cheap. It's very easy to say this without any evidence to back it up. Sounds like :bs: to me. 

 

Quote

It's perfectly okay for somebody to have an opposing viewpoint to you without you turning to childish namecalling and "you shouldn't be here" remarks.

Stop being such a petty, whiny little bitch about your feelings (with that attitude, nobody wants you around... blah blah blah).

Nobody said you shouldn't be here; nice straw man. The irony is that you come in here saying that you think we're childish and then offer to buy the place to fix it, then when that offer is rejected, you come back calling us all names again. I think you need to step back and take a good hard look at yourself.

 

Quote

Look at the damn facts in front of you. The owner is raising a white flag saying "something's gotta change here, and I'm open to suggestions". You seem to be of the opinion that nothing should change, and everything is fine just the way it is. .

 

The irony is that this whole discussion is the most active thread in a long time (engaging members of old and new), and you're attempting to immediately shut down discussion that goes down a path you don't feel comfortable with. Do you see the problem there?

Wrong with all of that, except for engaging a couple of old members. Firstly, there are other equally or larger active threads, currently. Secondly, I'm definitely not shutting it down as I was the one who suggested to the owner to have this discussion. This is why there's no problem here, only your attitude towards this community.

 

Quote

Feel free to ban me... it's a backup plan that you'd be grateful for.

Why would we ban (or any of the other stuff up there mentioned) you for having an opinion on a topic that we're gathering opinions on? That's not something that happens around here :)

 

We already backup the forum regularly, so we don't need your help in archiving it. Thanks, anyway.

 

... 

 

Engagement is just a matter of making the place well known (it already is, for the most part, among the people who we want to join in on this site), then making it worthwhile coming to (it already is, for a multitude of reasons) and then make the worthwhile reasons sustainable and easy accessible. Those things are all much easier said than done and you (or anybody else) choosing to buy this forum, would not help with any of it. 


Your attitude towards the current interested members and their community atmosphere is what we have not liked about what you've said. Your input is valuable, but it's nothing we haven't already thought of or considered.

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No offer was rejected, as it was never reasonably considered nor discussed. Backing up my claims of "I've done well" with "here are some examples"? Who would care? And big-noting oneself by parading previous achievements in completely unrelated fields isn't going to endear me to anybody. I'm not here to win votes.

 

Engagement is just a matter of making the place well known... which you immediately follow up with "it already is". So let's check that box.

 

... making it worthwhile coming to... also check that box as "it already is" per your comment.

 

... make the worthwhile reasons sustainable and easy [sic] accessible. It's on the internet (on HA and scalable infrastructure); you put in an email address and a password of your choosing and you can see pretty much everything. So let's check that box as well.

 

As far as your recipe for success goes; it would appear everything is already in place. And don't conflate your own opinions with the collective "we". Given your recipe has been executed to nearly 100% - where are the balloons and confetti for celebrating a job-well-done?

 

You might back the forum up regularly, I don't think I've misunderstood that part nor alluded to any other behaviour. Rexnet was backed up regularly as well. You see where I'm going with that?

 

It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it (not the other way around). You've heard of a free market economy?

 

My attitude towards the current interested members and the community is that they need a champion to push their cause forward in a perilous market, and not somebody to rest on their laurels. Establishing pre-negotiated discounts and benefits not afforded to newcomers or those uninvolved. Advancement of understanding and experience amongst like-minded and free-spirited enthusiasts. Leveraging the market penetration sought by new vendors in the marketplace... basic branding, market positioning... etc etc.

 

People need someone who is going to advocate for their cause and passion. Bringing fresh minds into the fold boosts the status of those in before them, and on and on the pattern develops. Setting up some new subforums or putting a paywall on something that people have always gotten for free... it's just putting a bandaid on a shotgun wound.

 

I've enjoyed this (mostly) respectful discourse. Money is the thing that talks, though. The aforementioned bullsh*t walks.

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