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04' mk2 BA ute 554rwkw

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6 hours ago, tazzanz said:

*fb pic*

without the "rest" of that post, it's useless in this context. To me, in that post, he was clearly "marketing" a product... he didn't provide any other information regarding what actually changed between those runs and never would.

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1 hour ago, Puffwagon said:

Cams don't just shift the powerband

Implying that's not all they do, in response to k31ths post.

 

16 minutes ago, arronm said:

Cams DO shift the power and torque curve.

I didn't say they don't do that. See above.

 

16 minutes ago, arronm said:

"progressive dyno runs"

 

11 hours ago, DC-Auto said:

9.7psi = 524rwhp

14psi = 571rwhp

16psi = 593rwhp

17psi = 609rwhp

There is the example I was referring to.

 

16 minutes ago, arronm said:

WHO had a dyno.

The eddy current dyno was invented about 85 to 90 years ago so they were around "back in the day".

 

Anyways...that was more explaining than I cared to do and I can see this thread getting derailed any moment. :)

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To make big big power you need RPM.  To make RPM you need modified cams.  

 

It's always  been the same. 

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Yep that I can agree with.

 

I think the general argument behind barra motors not needing bigger cams is that they are already sufficient for 90% of street cars.

 

Also there is a lot of work (full forged rebuild at a minimum) that needs to be done to make big cams work properly and reliably in a barra motor.

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True.  Street cars don't really require modified cams

 

Spoils the drive and the fuel consumption. 

 

Totally different for a track car.

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On 2/28/2018 at 10:23 AM, arronm said:

To make big big power you need RPM.  To make RPM you need modified cams.

It's always  been the same.

Nemz made 850RWKW on stock head and cams! Revs to 7000 - Obviously upgraded the valve springs.

158MPH in a 4220lbs car.

Edited by Typhoon

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18psi is all we could get on E85, wastegate needs some attention. havent decided whether to throw in some new spring combination into the (older generation) Tial 44mm (17psi), or upgrade the gate. im a bit dissapointed with only 50hp gain with e85, drive much nicer, idles better, but with the excessive fuel consumption I dont think it is worth running e85 at this boost 

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Just chuck in some more spring pressure.

 

Springs are cheap as and it'll take you no time at all to chuck some extra or heavier ones in.

 

Upgrading the gate is for flow and back pressure reasons, not raising the boost level.

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53 minutes ago, Puffwagon said:

Just chuck in some more spring pressure.

 

Springs are cheap as and it'll take you no time at all to chuck some extra or heavier ones in.

 

Upgrading the gate is for flow and back pressure reasons, not raising the boost level.

100%, the reason to upgrade wasnt due to the extra boost, the older Tial 44mm gates are becoming increasingly difficult to find springs. I have to pay $140AU to purchase the springs I need from the States

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It's still cheaper to get the springs though.

 

In saying that a new gate will bring the design benefits, along with possibly less worn parts and as you mentioned, new springs are easier to get. 

 

Do you need any exhaust work or flange replacing to fit a new gate?

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If your tuner knows what they are doing then they will be able to tell you exactly what you should do.

 

Edit: I'd still get some new springs though ;)

Edited by Puffwagon

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On 3/5/2018 at 4:24 PM, Typhoon said:

Nemz made 850RWKW on stock head and cams! Revs to 7000 - Obviously upgraded the valve springs.

158MPH in a 4220lbs car.

Stock cams, you sure.   I dont think so.

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I have a brand new Mac solenoid being controlled by the Haltech, Ash (tuner) runs the same setup on his 7sec LSX RX7

Use a four port solenoid and you will get way more pressure then a 3 port.

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12 hours ago, arronm said:

Stock cams, you sure.   I dont think so.

I don’t have 100% proof of that. But ALL the info on the net I have found has always stated stock cam and head. Even on the 40+pound  8.90 pass motor that Nemz and his mates built!

 

 

I believe it

 

All on board footage would also indicate around the 7000rpm mark

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Also...

 

Trap speed indicates correct mph for lets say 6800 to 7000 rpm for the proven 158mph the car has run.

 

look into the ZF 4th gear ration and diff combo and you will find its correct.

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On 3/5/2018 at 4:24 PM, Typhoon said:

Nemz made 850RWKW on stock head and cams! Revs to 7000 - Obviously upgraded the valve springs.

158MPH in a 4220lbs car.

 

On 3/9/2018 at 8:12 PM, arronm said:

Stock cams, you sure.   I dont think so.

 

On 3/10/2018 at 8:23 AM, Typhoon said:

I don’t have 100% proof of that. But ALL the info on the net I have found has always stated stock cam and head. Even on the 40+pound  8.90 pass motor that Nemz and his mates built!

 

 

I believe it

 

All on board footage would also indicate around the 7000rpm mark

 

On 3/10/2018 at 8:40 AM, Typhoon said:

Also...

 

Trap speed indicates correct mph for lets say 6800 to 7000 rpm for the proven 158mph the car has run.

 

look into the ZF 4th gear ration and diff combo and you will find its correct.

Research indicates 7k on stock cams is possible.  Perfect for a street driven car. BUT not the best way to go for a drag car.  Best to throw in some cams and spin up past 7k

 

On stock cams it would be more difficult  to use that high boost pressure. 

 

Better to reduce psi and increase rpm 

 

But I stand corrected.  It is likely the nizpro car has stock cams.

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Its pretty cool when we can call an 8.90 pass in a 4200 pound rd car NOT a drag car. lol

 

Dion Amato spins his barra to over 11000RPM  - now that's a drag car!

 

I think his at 50+psi

 

Barra the world!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Nemz at Cuda could only manage 11.1

 

 

I think the new standard for these falcons will be to see if we can go 400kmh.

 

They make more then enough power to get that weight to that speed

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A correct port job on your head and cleaning up the valves wont hurt at all.

But it’s just not a requierment when chasing big power.

 

On a 100% stock head just add valve springs and your good for 800 to 900HP.

 

Its all in the efficiency of your supporting mods. A good port job is not going to give you the benefit you may expect if you have a poor exhaust or poor intercooler.

 

My motor is 12 years old with 165000kms on it the only engine mod is valve springs and head studs. I pulled the head off did a stock reco, new OEM gaskets put it back together did a new timing chain guide and went 524rwkw.

 

Heaps of guys in Australia going down this path now. 

 

Use as many stock parts as possible and you will run into less problems.

 

I also buy genuine Ford replacement parts.

 

Adding cams is costly and complicated when spining these motors past 7000RPM.

 

Stock bottom ends wont like that RPM for very long and you will also need to think about installing solid lifters over 7000rpm as well.

 

 

Keep it simple and you can have a street car that will run with 1L street bikes! 

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I will clarify right now, that I am not a professional, but I have spent a lot time researching an presenting probing questions to some professionals that have 40 industry experience. I am happy to exchange views and and I am more than happy for other to correct any errors  that I make... So, here we go.

 

The requirement or necessity of head porting is really dependent on the application/purpose of the engine.  I have had many debates with Nem and the likes about this topic. Their line of thinking is "just throw more boost at it", and "if you you don't have enough boost, install a bigger turbo".  I had a bit of spare time and we debated the topic. He had a few ill informed retorts and eventually  resorted to statements like:  "I run an 8, what do you run? Until you do STFU." Cases like these highlight  this mentality and their lack of understanding of air flow principles. It also highlights that the majority are cheque book racers and don't design and build their own cars.. 

 

So, what is boost?  All in all, boost is measurement of pressure. But, it is also a measurement of restriction....  As many here would know, this (restriction and it's effects on "boost") has been highlighted in previous thread when testing pressure drops with intercoolers. Keep this in mind, with the following..

 

A professionally ported cylinder head (Like mine), will see an increase of around 30% of cfm across the whole range. Now, think about that for a second, that is from 0.050' right through to 0.700' lift. This significant increases the volumetric efficiency and decreases turbulence in the ports.  In essence, this increases the amount of air an fuel into the cylinders. This results in a substantial power increase, while utilising less boost, thereby improving part throttle response (Not really limited to part throttle) and overall power gains across the whole range.  And we're not talking a few hp here, we're talking about substantial gains. Keep in mind that this also effect spool and efficiency prior to boost coming online...What's not to like there...

 

A common defense used to justify no cylinder head porting, is cost.  The old "it's not worth the money, throw more boost into it'..  Keep in mind that throwing more boost into an engine"  results in increased IAT's and the compressor wheel ultimately working outside of its efficiency range, which results in diminishing returns (hp per psi boost increase and less timing). Keep in mind, that to counteract this, would require a more efficient intercooler or additional components like water/mentanol  injection. Installing a larger turbo also has its pro's and con's. It will provide increased air density, but the resulting trade off is lag..  Hence, earlier statement about purpose and intent of the vehicle...   of these incur significant cost. 

 

It is also interesting to note that 99% of the negative supporters fit larger intercoolers, piping, plenums and aftermarket exhausts. Every one of these components is rather costly and ultimately deisgned to improve airflow,  efficiency and power output of the engine. So why would they do all of these things and still do absolutely nothing to the cylinder head? After all, bang for buck, it provides the greatest gains per $ spent...Talk about having an Elephant in the room...

 

Just my two cents.....

Edited by HI PSI

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It is a very controversial topic for the Barra, Porting and cams lol. I am looking at chucking 5k into my head in the next month which consists of, Full CNC porting, Valve springs, Custom cams, Machining seats etc, Kelford cams would be doing the work, the last head they did they unlocked another 40CFM on stock valves!! But now I am second guessing it, 850KW @40psi is pretty good going for a stock head.

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