Jump to content


JETURBO

Jet's Tuning (Oh No)

Recommended Posts

On 5/28/2017 at 2:39 PM, JETURBO said:

Oh and another workshop pumping out 500rwkw on a single Pierberg pump on E85 and way deep into the AFR's there around redline hahahaha, can't just be me and my hobby hey lol

 

brtNdu.jpg

 

 

Plazmaman realized the limitations of the single pierberg. Check the revised RWKW rating of the surge setup.. Its exactly what Romulus and I found out when we tuned.

 

Not sure what tuners are pushing them but the two main tuners in Perth, XFT and Monster Torque dont get anywhere near 500, because they just lean out....

 

https://plazmaman.com/product/ford-falcon-babf-fuel-system-single-pump-700hp/

Edited by arronm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well without taking away from what you have posted ( no idea why you’re fishing around in old posts getting all wound up ) can you read a dyno graph and the AFR line ?

 

Do you know how “rich” ~11.0 AFR is ? 

 

Do you think its a photoshopped graph or something :ermm:

 

are you upset your tuner cant replicate the same situation or something? What’s the point again ?

 

since you’re an engineer and I don’t want to over stretch your capacity but please touch on the base of what happens to an electrical pumps flow when you add or reduce head pressure ? 

 

Just in case you need to google ill help you 

 

high pressure - lower flow Ltrs/min 

low pressure - higher Ltrs/min 

 

what does an adjustable fuel pressure regulator let you do :ermm:

whats the effect of different AFR targets on a pumps capacity ?

whats the positive to having injectors that can be scaled to lower pressures ?

 

for someone who constantly tells us all how brilliant he is you bloody struggle with people who can brain and generate different results than what “your guy” can generate, this kind of makes you look simple hey :giverose:

 

Its not even the fact your guy can’t, I fully believe he can but obviously won’t or won’t put in the time to do so or just won’t deviate away from what he does, I got no idea why 

 

there’s quite a few variables to play with on a same/same combo and two very different available results to generate so why do you feel that your results in Perth are the benchmark again ?

Edited by JETURBO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, JETURBO said:

Well without taking away from what you have posted ( no idea why you’re fishing around in old posts getting all wound up ) can you read a dyno graph and the AFR line ?

 

Do you know how “rich” ~11.0 AFR is ? 

 

Do you think its a photoshopped graph or something :ermm:

 

are you upset your tuner cant replicate the same situation or something? What’s the point again ?

 

since you’re an engineer and I don’t want to over stretch your capacity but please touch on the base of what happens to an electrical pumps flow when you add or reduce head pressure ? 

 

Just in case you need to google ill help you 

 

high pressure - lower flow Ltrs/min 

low pressure - higher Ltrs/min 

 

what does an adjustable fuel pressure regulator let you do :ermm:

whats the effect of different AFR targets on a pumps capacity ?

whats the positive to having injectors that can be scaled to lower pressures ?

 

for someone who constantly tells us all how brilliant he is you bloody struggle with people who can brain and generate different results than what “your guy” can generate, this kind of makes you look simple hey :giverose:

 

Its not even the fact your guy can’t, I fully believe he can but obviously won’t or won’t put in the time to do so or just won’t deviate away from what he does, I got no idea why 

 

there’s quite a few variables to play with on a same/same combo and two very different available results to generate so why do you feel that your results in Perth are the benchmark again ?

Just bringing the news, plazmaman didnt re-rate the pump setup for no reason. Its just not me, Romulus at monster torque had the same issue, leaning at about 470. So two different tuners with the same fuel setup having the same issue. And I bet Nizpro will say the same. Hey they have the fastest cars in the country running those multi pierberg pump surge setups.

 

Hey not arguing just stating the results I know of.

 

And by the way when we were talking about E85 tuning and AFR and Lambda. I forwarded the info you gave me to my tuner. His exact words were. "As for those comments I dont know who he is (you) but he obviously isnt to bright"

 

Jet, your post below

 

IDXhQzp.jpg

Edited by arronm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if he can’t see any logic and truth to that screen shot it’s not me that is suffering from reducing lumens  

 

Nizpro ..... the same company that can go 450rwkw on a single 044 .... wonder how they achieve that safely when “all other” workshops are out at 400rwkw on E85 

 

remember that argument ? 

 

I wonder how far they have taken a single pierberg ... 

 

what has me stumped is the fact that a “rated” item is a rating for “standard configuration” ( ie 4bar base ) this doesn’t mean you can’t run it at either 3 or 5 bar base 

 

we have injectors that are scaleable to a large variation due to stability especially with the Injector Dynamics range so comfortably 3-5 bar base  

 

we can increase voltage supplied to the pump easily which increases a pumps capacity dramatically 

 

so tell me a “rated” 450rwkw pump in general terms ( that has stability with High / low pressures, High and low voltage supply ) can’t be safely used past a “re sellers” listed ( and conservative listing might I add ) figure ? 

 

Does your tuner understand the demad of a fuel system when target AFR’s are say 1 full point in difference ( say 11.5 to 12.5 ) 

of course he does 

Does your tuner understand the deman a fuel system can maintain with voltage fluctuations, of course he does 

Does he understand the difference between different base/delta fuel pressures and the difference between the pumps demand ( say between 3 bar 4 bar ) 

of course he does .....

 

so anyone know what the differance is in return rail fuel flow between one single pump running standard configuration ( EXAMPLE 1 ... 4bar base/13.8v/11.5afr ) 

vs

the same pump at a modified set point ( EXAMPLE 2... 3bar base/16.5v/12.5afr ) 

 

???

 

that's a massive differance in return supply capabilities, now take the same pump, keep it in a standard configuration and run it at (4bar/13.8v but 12.0 ), what do you get ? 

 

= more than Example 1 but less than Example 2, correct ? 

 

For the bloke following along how easy is it to get this one pump to flow different figures, very easy hey, what if one cars supply voltage is only 12.8v and the battery/charge system is a bit aged , the other cars is newer and holding 13.8v strong ? Is there a difference ? 

 

What about fuel hose size ? 

What about pump head pressures between different cars, different installations, different inline filters, different rails ( single feed - twin feed ) 

the type of regulator, how it’s plumbed up .... the list goes on yes ? 

 

So why can one place create something and another place cant ? 

The above Dyno graph shows a strong 11.5AFR give or take at over 6000rpm and nudging 500rwkw ( and for christ sake it’s not even my car/tune/workshop/post ) 

 

If “Your” guy can’t make it happen and wanted to charge you more to do something different and add hardware that’s not my problem

if “other guys” can tune to 500rwkw on a single pierberg that’s also mot my problem but it’s closer to what I’ve done and safely 

 

so You're at 470-ish rwkw and out of fuel

the above graph is nearly at 500rwkw with a clear supply of fuel 

we’re really not splitting hairs here or are we for chit sake

its two vastly different cars with two different set ups yet share a common pump and one delivers and the other one doesn’t..... so we blame the pump or one of the array of other influencing factors ? :ermm:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree if you increase voltage you increase fuel pump delivery, BUT the std BA BF FG doesnt control pump voltage without external electronics.

 

Hey check out what Luke is doing, one single large pump and is controlling the voltage to control fuel pressure.

 

BUT, you have to agree something has happened for plazmaman to re-rate the  single pierberg surge down to 450rwkw.

 

And info from Nizpro reports at 470rwkw they change from single to twin pierberg surge, and I have that in writing straight from Nizpro. And they got the fastest ZF 6 speed in the country, so I think they know a thing or two.

 

Anyrate lets not fight about this anymore. I was just making a report that its interesting that plazmaman have re-rated the pump....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Increasing voltage past ~14.8V imho is a last resort but we do have fluctuating voltages within a stock BA/BF/FG ( this is why any good tuner will log Voltage as a bare minimum when data logging ) 

 

I agree Plazmaman have done something...but nothing to the pump, I just called Alex to check lead times on intercoolers and then threw the question at him why he’s modified the listing ..... brace yourself but it’s got NOTHING to do with the pump but a more strategic marketing campaign ( can’t blame him ) and he did say 550rwkw was a touch ambiguous so he’s dropped it right down ( I’ll let you make the assumption why in a retail capacity ;) ) 

 

He had reported countless figures upto and a few over 500rwkw on E85, I had a chat to him about my thoughts why and there’s a consensus between us two as why some do and others don’t ( I have some R&D to back up why and he included the same from other tune shops ) 

 

before I say exactly why im going to prove it beyond a doubt and I “might” share details and some data ( keep posted ) 

 

I have no doubts about Nizpro and I’ve always thought highly of the pioneering they’ve done over the years 

 

I’m not fighting I’m giving information to someone who might be struggling with a concept and I’m all ears if I’ve posted incorrect information :) 

 

ill leave you with something to ponder though and give something to consider for what you could look at before a second pump ..... think of everything from the hard fuel feed line and back to the return hard fuel line on the chassis rail ( factory line/rail/reg/line ) as a resistive element. Now work out what’s different between the 500rwkw cars and the ones that tap out at ~470rwkw in this element 

 

its only roughly 30rwkw’s so not a great deal but a cheap 30rwkw none the less 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I try and learn about basic tuning, I'm enjoying the debate and trying to work through and understand each comment.

Seriously though, just plumb a Walbro 255 like I did mine and you'll have powah for days

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was one of the guys who had 440kw ish on a single 044. was ok but nizpro said to think about upgrading (tune held back).

 

next service got it done, I wasnt to argue. then re tuned pushed past the 450 mark and everyone's happy.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In other news I’ve been playing with other things

 

443kw and 2565 of Torque @ 1550rpm with a K&N pod filter only :bum:

 

only has one fuel pump ......

 

j3ms36.jpg

 

PGUp0u.jpg

Edited by JETURBO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 05/05/2018 at 4:00 PM, JETURBO said:

In other news I’ve been playing with other things

 

443kw and 2565 of Torque @ 1550rpm with a K&N pod filter only :bum:

 

only has one fuel pump ......

 

j3ms36.jpg

 

PGUp0u.jpg

Aww that's cute, do you keep it in your purse with your tampons?

 

 

4ktJZyk.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sh*t program, I agree but it "WAS" cheaper than what adobe was previously.

We just got our recent maintenance agreement for the software and it has shot up by 90% in comparison to last year.

How do you justify that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey thanks, it’s a heck of a thread to read from start to finish but it’s clear the customers are nothing but happy and that’s why I love doing it :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, phat_boy said:

well what a thread, looks like you've turned out some serious cars and a heap of happy owners, that's a 10 outer 10 well done. makes me want to get my ute tuned 

 

your ute isnt tuned? are you feeling ok? 

 

:bliss:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   1 member

  • Donation Box

    Please donate to support the community.
    We appreciate all donations!


FordXR6Turbo.com Powered by Invision Community

×