Wyatt Donating Members 70 Member For: 4y 8m 27d Gender: Male Location: Cairns Posted 26/08/19 08:24 PM Share Posted 26/08/19 08:24 PM Brad, Love your work, shared experiences and commitment to your dream, big HP is right there in the face of those who want it, keeping stuff operating and/or being happy with wot you got seems to be the hard part. This HP thing is totally addictive and consuming. Can't imagine the stress and head trauma continually fixing expensive stuff would be, don't really wanna find out. Previous owner said to me go to 16-17psi on E85 & 450kw, no thanks. Question still remains is preemptively doweling the flexplate a valid idea or just an excuse to spend more $ @Jeturbo when are you gunna read your messages 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI PSI Member 1,567 Member For: 17y 10m 24d Gender: Male Location: Central Queensland Posted 26/08/19 11:03 PM Share Posted 26/08/19 11:03 PM (edited) In all honesty, my problems are not isolated. It's not strictly a power related problem either. These engines have harmonics issues at high rpm. This results in bolts coming loose and failing. We think that the bolts are too tensile and inflexible, which makes them brittle when side loaded. Another issue is the length of the shank on the ARP Pro bolts. When we installed the bolts into the crank (with no flywheel), we noticed that the bolt only had 0.030" of actual clamp, even when thread bound. So we think that they were not actually reaching the correct clamp pressure. Not good.... So, we decided to dowel the crank. This unloads all potential side loading off the bolts and installed a locking shim to retain all of the bolts. We toyed with the idea of lock wiring and welding (Tig) the bolts to the flywheel, but each results in a degredation of some kind. Not exactly a desireable outcome, given that we're trying to achieve strength and reliability. My previous post probably a true representation, as my clutch change was a result of an upgrade, not the failure of the flywheel bolts. For this, I apologise. I'm well known for finishing the car and then pulling it apart again and upgrading.. Lol. The point that I was making is that it wasn't a clutch or flywheel problem. As it occured with each clutch system. For me, it's a no brainer. Dowel the crank. It's cheap enough and worth doing if your already pulling out the box/flex plate Ozywalker was nice enough to lend me his Atomic dowel jig. I paid for its freight and gave him some coin for a carton of nice beer. Thanks again Ozy. It may be beneficial to contact him and rent it also. Anyway, I hope that this helps you with your decision. Brad Edited 26/08/19 11:05 PM by HI PSI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETURBO ...JD TUNING ADELAIDE... Gold Donating Members 23,708 Member For: 15y 10m 18d Gender: Male Location: Adelaide Posted 26/08/19 11:25 PM Share Posted 26/08/19 11:25 PM 2 hours ago, Wyatt said: @Jeturbo when are you gunna read your messages Just then, sorry for the delay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arronm Dropping a turd Gold Donating Members 9,520 Member For: 16y 5m 22d Gender: Male Location: Perth Posted 27/08/19 12:18 AM Share Posted 27/08/19 12:18 AM (edited) If the bolt length is an issue ( and less than 1mm is) then shorten them. Additionally most people dont understand the procedure for loctiting bolts into a blind hole. This is a major reason for bolts loosening and fatiguing. I just conducted a failure investigation and this was a major contributing factor. Edited 27/08/19 12:18 AM by arronm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI PSI Member 1,567 Member For: 17y 10m 24d Gender: Male Location: Central Queensland Posted 27/08/19 03:57 AM Share Posted 27/08/19 03:57 AM The length of the shank was the problem. Not the bolt length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k31th less WHY; more WOT Site Developer 28,288 Member For: 16y 8d Gender: Male Location: Melbourne Posted 27/08/19 03:59 AM Share Posted 27/08/19 03:59 AM so I'm guessing you couldn't cut more threads into the shank with a die in that circumstance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arronm Dropping a turd Gold Donating Members 9,520 Member For: 16y 5m 22d Gender: Male Location: Perth Posted 27/08/19 04:41 AM Share Posted 27/08/19 04:41 AM Cutting into a rolled thread???? Looking for trouble. Just use the correct fitting bolt. With these flywheels on Turbo Barras, if the planets dont align the bolts just come loose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Donating Members 70 Member For: 4y 8m 27d Gender: Male Location: Cairns Posted 27/08/19 10:14 AM Share Posted 27/08/19 10:14 AM 10 hours ago, HI PSI said: In all honesty, my problems are not isolated. It's not strictly a power related problem either. These engines have harmonics issues at high rpm. This results in bolts coming loose and failing. We think that the bolts are too tensile and inflexible, which makes them brittle when side loaded. Another issue is the length of the shank on the ARP Pro bolts. When we installed the bolts into the crank (with no flywheel), we noticed that the bolt only had 0.030" of actual clamp, even when thread bound. So we think that they were not actually reaching the correct clamp pressure. Not good.... So, we decided to dowel the crank. This unloads all potential side loading off the bolts and installed a locking shim to retain all of the bolts. We toyed with the idea of lock wiring and welding (Tig) the bolts to the flywheel, but each results in a degredation of some kind. Not exactly a desireable outcome, given that we're trying to achieve strength and reliability. My previous post probably a true representation, as my clutch change was a result of an upgrade, not the failure of the flywheel bolts. For this, I apologise. I'm well known for finishing the car and then pulling it apart again and upgrading.. Lol. The point that I was making is that it wasn't a clutch or flywheel problem. As it occured with each clutch system. For me, it's a no brainer. Dowel the crank. It's cheap enough and worth doing if your already pulling out the box/flex plate Ozywalker was nice enough to lend me his Atomic dowel jig. I paid for its freight and gave him some coin for a carton of nice beer. Thanks again Ozy. It may be beneficial to contact him and rent it also. Anyway, I hope that this helps you with your decision. Brad Just had a better look at your amazing thread, very much a chalk and cheese comparison, but nevertheless, doweling the crank would shut the issue down and I appreciate your time to consider my question. I have a much greater idea of what is going on now than just a few days ago. Thank you Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arronm Dropping a turd Gold Donating Members 9,520 Member For: 16y 5m 22d Gender: Male Location: Perth Posted 27/08/19 10:22 AM Share Posted 27/08/19 10:22 AM Unfortunately doweling the crank doesn't always solve the issue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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