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Sir20B

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Everything posted by Sir20B

  1. Happy Birthday Sir20B!

  2. Oh Boy... (or should that be boo hooo) Now you re making me laugh.. That's a big call for someone who wont commit to the CoolOFF Also I can’t actually see where you said you wouldn't commit , until the post above.. Anyway, my count, the 'ol' Extruded T&F has it over the B/P core 5 out of 8 tests in my above test, may be more.. For some insight (for now) name the country of origin of your "U beaut" B&P core....?? Be honest.. Cheers
  3. Yes it should be good, though conversation actually finished a little prematurely.. The conversation was really only focussed on one aspect of the function of an intercooler... This being out outlet air temp... Which as we said favours the B&P (Bar & Plate) cooler for short load period with longer recovery time.. There are soo many other factors relevant/critical in the performance of any whether it be B&P or T&F (Tube and Fin) 1: Boost side pressure drop and lack of it. The lower the better is what we are after... The 16mm tube pitch PWR T&F cooler will romp this in. Flow Flow and lots off it... maybe 2-3 times less pressure drop compared to the B&P in question on this thread with or without the 100mm removed off the top. Lower boost side pressure drop also has a few added advantages... 2: Faster off boost response & (in the case of a manual car) less lag time between gears. Lag time on turbo cars is a bitch and is a real factor that should be measured and factored into any intercooler test.. I can easily add an RPM Function to the data logger and find the cooler offering the lowest/least lag time... (measured by lowest RPM point when 1.000psi positive pressure is seen in the intake manifold). This will favour the T&F core.. ill throw it out there, 200rpm sooner 3: Lower Turbo charger discharge temp simply due to not having to turn the turbo as hard to obtain the desired boost level at the engine intake manifold. This is set up on my data logger anyway.. For the test we'll use say 10psi at engine intake as an aim. The higher pressure drop we see on the B&P cooler will see higher turbo discharge temps.. 4: Ambient air side pressure drop. I can arrange a wind tunnel ambient air side pressure drop test..This will favour the T&F core, ill throw it out there and say 25% greater flow 5: Lowest outlet air temp after 1x 15sec dyno pull Full load. This is in favour for the B&P coler if done from cold (which in this test will be). The B&P cooler is heavier in construction... It takes longer to heat up....along with a longer cool down period. 6: Lowest out let air temp after 3min period @ 10psi at the intake manifold.. (pending transmission oil temps) The continuous load period will off set the initial "weight" advantage of the heavier B&P cooler. This will be interesting... 7: Lowest outlet air temp after quarter mile drag pass. This should be in favour of the B&P cooler , but still I'd like to confirm. The T&F core will see higher ambient airflow less heat into the cooler... it will be interesting.. 8: Lowest outlet air temp after 3 laps of Queensland raceway or lakeside...This I am dreaming if I think the stock brakes on a FG will cope with more than 1 lap. This one we will have to rely on the result of test 6.. 9: and last but not least... Engine Water Temps. Logging the peak water temp with each cooler... and obviously awarding the point to the unit that consistently sees the lower peak water temp. This will favour the T&F cooler.. So for the test, best out of the above?? Happy to add further Along with the temp sensor bosses mentioned in previous post above, Ill also need a set of lower pipes to fit the PW cooler, as the PWR unit retains stock pipes or stock shape equivalent... Cheers
  4. For the Back to back test I think its still a factor of interest to measure... Let me know when youve got a cooler ready to go. Cheers PS ill need a M5 x 1.0 female boss in each tank close to the outlets.. Also a 1/8th NPT female in each also..
  5. Drag may be, as long as your starved engine radiator can cope with it... Circuit or constant load no. Real world street speeds of 60-80km will see a much much longer recovery time for the bar and plate cooler. Im not telling you anything you dont know.. You been doing this for as long as I have... Showing no bias the wide tube pitch of a Plazmaman Tube and Fin cooler I think will work better under constant load or real life street speeds or a constant load circuit car for example... It will clearly breath the most cooling ambient airflow... PWR unit somewhere behind that with its slightly tighter 16mm tube pitch. Yeah over 11+yrs. I believe we met at Sema in Vegas Nov 2002... I cant recall meeting you again after that. Spoke every few days for a few years.. Allgood. Happy to test it unbiased. ill also measure the effect on engine water temps... Honestly I will be very interested to see the result after 3 mins... It will be good. I have a several thousand dollar 8 Channel logger on my car. We may as well use it. Ive actualy been testing some exhausts of late (that's another story) Cheers
  6. Cool... (Literally) Send her up. Happy to test it for you.. Criteria will be a 3 Minute period at 75% load on Dyno with 60 km/h Dyno fan going flat out... Any Bar and plate cooler will "hold" the cold for longer on one pull and let time to recover due to it being heavier in construction than any T/F cooler ever made. A constant load period will be interesting with the flat faced natured front edge of the bar and plate cooler with 60km/h breeze blowing over it and not through it.. PM me for address. Cheers
  7. I think 990inc. Best ring to confirm No, but I have ran one of their data loggers on my car for last 4months (one of 2 cars to do so). Not biased, just keen to get the most bang for buck (like the rest of us) and stating it how it is... Id also be happy to test any intercooler that you can find, that will fit with zero mods to the stock front end of my FG... cheers
  8. Cool , does that mean there is gringing / cutting of the steel reo also? Mmm I guess Ford Engineers are the only people who can answer that. Id would be terrible to find out the hard way... ie up the back of a bus or something! Or if your insurance company rejected a claim. The PWR stepped unit retains all 4 yes.. I found this flyer on the PWR Site.. Your best referring to each reseller or manufacturer for individual tests results or performance graphs perhaps. There are graphs on the pwr site I see also... Performance wise it comes back to basics...A cooler that DOES require cutting of the car has a head start.. ie it is obviously larger compared to that of a cooler that obviously doesnt.. I guess its also a case of personal choice.. cheers
  9. <P>.<IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt= src="/style_emoticons/default/buttrock.gif"> </P> <P> </P>
  10. Many coolers offered for the FG Require complete removal (completely cut out) of the upper link of the rad support panel (between the upper intercooler mount points) It too isnt something that would be considered as reversible. I would think its not something many insurers would be in favour of either...
  11. There are 2 FGs in QLD running around with the New PWR stepped cooler in them. One is mine. For me the appeal was ZERO cutting of the stock car in any way. Im not sure on insurance companies finer details or criteria, but for me avoiding hassles in the unlikely event of an accident was apprealing, due to this cooler being the only one I could find that didnt cut the car (or in this case) upper bar reo anyway... Also the appeal of the intercooler being compatible with stock pipes... or stock pipe shape equivalent, despite the slightly steeper angle of the inlet (also the added upper tank volume compared to that of the F6 Cooler) to aid flow to the usually unused upper tubes Data wise the two cars have loggers on them full time, everytime they are driven.. Logging pressures and temps at 3 points across the entire intake of the FG along with engine water temps, all compared to the stock XR & F6 Coolers... PWR when asked why the stepped cooler? Because no body else can... Anyway its not for me to ramble on about, for now judge for yourself.. Mine as one of two cars running data loggers I have 3 snippets of data from the earlier days in march..Mine the stocker of the two.. First Graph above: Sub 12.90 pass Top of first gear 0.01PSI pressure drop and an intercooler outlet temp of 1 degF above ambient. Total temp drop across the cooler at this stage was 24Deg F. (oh to the keener observer on this day the in and out TEMP channels are in reverse) Second Graph: After hitting Rev limiter in First Gear (Oooops), at half track, the pressure drop at this stage is 0.43PSI and an intercooler outlet temp of 8DegF above ambient. the Total temp drop across the cooler at this half track stage is 88DegF. By the end of 400mts and just touching rev limiter in 3rd gear (on the ZF) and the boost on the otherwise standard car lowering as it climed in speed and rpm (??). The pressure drop at this closing stage was 0.02PSI with an intercooler outlet temp of 12DegF above ambient.. Total temp drop across the cooler at this stage was 100DegF.. Anyway enough ramble from me. PWR will (I guess) tell the rest, with more on engine water temps with this cooler compared to the stock xr and F6 units and even some exh back pressure tests thrown in. Cheers
  12. I couldnt see any movies of the Xr6T Supercar posted in this or thread or others.. looks like quite a handfull. Good stuff.
  13. Heaps. My BF running 430rwhp (322rwkw) back on 06 (not massive power by todays standards) running the full 4 SMB exh and the then SMB 4" 200cel cat peaked at a measily 2.1psi back pressure when measured in front (up stream) of the cat... (compared to the stock cat peaking at over 4 times that! Suprisingly the stock rear mufflers only offered a bit over 3psi back pressure at the 322rwkw!) Anyway the full SMB 4 system, ran ZERO None Nil, when measured just down stream (after) cat. My electronic gauge didnt even register! The only trade off was I couldnt keep boost under 12psi! It would just run away, due to the exh gas (I think ran out the through the exh housing , leaving the stock waste gate useless. The exh system so to speak was too good). I see SMB now run/offer a 5" 100cell inplace of the old 4 cat. ill be doing exactly as MILES said and go the 4" SMB on my FG shortly (just after im content that my stock FG wont better than the 12.90 @ 109 its ran so far, while logging exh and intercooler pressure and temps along the way), with 5100cel cat and go the 3.5 rear section just keep the noise down a tad (must be getting old) also there just isnt a need for the full 4 at the power level I am heading for 500rwhp or so (yep I am definately getting old). I dont work for Walkers (SMB) but happy to give anything that's good a plug! Ive also heard lots of good things about the NizPro and CES systems. Like the SMB systems they look good far to good be hidden under a car! I hope this helps
  14. If its anything like my 2010 FG Oil leaking Turbo issue, the diff will have to fall out onto the road b4 it gets replaced.. My FG also has a diff clunk... I first noticed it while the engine is hunting when after a cold start and idling in drive. The engine hunts up and down causes a horrible clunk noise in the poor diff while the engine takes a few mins to smooth out and warms up! Im not going to bother taking it back to ford again.
  15. I changed the diff oil in my 430Rwhp BF ute every 50k with Castrol XA. After 174,000 the diff was still quiet and working fine when I sold the car. I didnt use additives in that Castol Synthetic Oil A small mention, the first time due to the car being raised slightly in the rear, I know I over filled it and yes it pissed out the fron pinion seal. Cheers
  16. My trusty ol 06 BF Xr6T ute had a SMB 4" Stainless system after I fitted it at 1600km old, right up to selling it at 174,000km. Faultless system with great WOT sound. Tad noisey at cold start ((shook the floor boards and windows of my house (garage under house))... and yes aussie made. I will place an SMB on my FG soooon
  17. Powder coated black pipes, all silicon and clamps was 825 cheers
  18. Add me in 12s.. Plate Sir20B QLD FG A6 ute, last night at willowbank ran 12.92 @ 109mph as driven off show room floor with only a booost pipe change (due to stock boost pipes leaking oil!)Otherwise bog stock standard car down to the air filter 4000km old. Oh castrol edge 10 60 in the sump! Cheers
  19. Thanks to all.. Some pics taken at under 1400km even after new clamps..the clamps were replaced by ford to keep the oil "in" the car I guess.. Fully appreciating it is the way it goes and sh*t happens on mass produced stuff, it was a little dissapointing (being a die hard ford fan) to be told by ford the falling level on my (3week old 1240km car) dip stick isnt an issue... and yeah my 20Bs dont use this much oil Ive kept a km log with pics (and oil measurements (the oil ive been able to catch!!)) and ive taken the higher powers.. the wheels are in motion... Otherwise its a nice car Cheers
  20. Mmmmmm Blood from stone being the appropriate description.... The after intercooler pipe leading to throttle body at anytime can be found to have 20cc of oil in it (at anytime even after being emptied the day prior... Not to mention the oil leaking from just about every hose join on the intake system) Ford today replaced all the clamps and pcv ((though the feed to the turbo (as mentioned above) is bone dry)) Ford today confirm the Oil level on the dip stick was "down", yet untill the car is blowing smoke and/or the turbo compressor wheel is actually making contact with the compressor housing, the problem as far as Ford head Qtrs is concerned, isnt a warrantable issue. Little dissapointed really. 40k car that ive had 3weeks, with (now just over) 1000km on clock and ive still yet to even red-line it!!
  21. Hi Guys Looking through the other threads I cant see anyone else making mention of a similar problem... Whilst fitting an after market PWR intercooler piping kit (that has just been released) to my otherwise stock 2010 FG Xr6T,I noticed some 10 drops of engine oil about to drop off my front bar under tray! After removal of the front bar it became obvious the oil was infact coming from the intercooler piping... the intercooler feed pipe to be exact... It looks as though the intercooler feed pipe was a little loose from factory, and was leting boost to leak.. Though due to the exessive oil inside of the piping created a lovely mess of the inside of bar cover, under tray, part of the radiator and AC condensor... On closer inspection each of the intercooler pipes were coated in an impressively generous amount of engine oil! The final pipe leading upto the throttle body had the most of all,resutling in a puddle on the painted floor the size of a tea cup saucer (125mm across...!!) Further inspection it it became obvious the turbo charger compressor housing is where the oil enters the intake system. The air feed to the turbo is bone dry and proves the engine is not breathing a drop... I then proceeded to place the car back to stock, the now oil soaked pipes have popped off twice now. Ford look to be going to replace the turbo next week so all good. Next weekend ill be under the car with bucket and sponge cleaning up the mess. I guess its just one of those things... Anyone had similar experience?
  22. Hi Guys Im only new to the site and am no expert on this topic but can add with an experience I had... After 173,000km of moderate driving, my 430 rwhp, April 06 Manual BF XR6T (ive owned since new) Turbo charger ground itself to a grinding boost-less hault whilst coasting down the M1 on a sunny qld sunday. On the day and 30km prior to the event, there was a slight rattle, (not pinging rattle) but more like a loose heat sheild rattle. Driving cautiously applying lite throttle only as I listened to try and identify where the noise was coming from...In less than 30km of highway driving and slight boost the car stopped making any boost at all... I pulled over, switched the car off and wrestled and removed the turbo air intake hose.. The front wheel of the turbo I discovered was the source of the lite rattle as it ground away on the inside of the turbo compressor housing!! The movement up and down was 3-4mm , not to mention the debris (as a result of this grinding) that had now just been consumed by my poor Engine... Towed the car to home. Rang ford for a Price on a new Turbo.. I forget the amount (I think was 3500 or something). Rang a known Garret dealer and they said 1500 (I think) and asked how many km did I have on my car? I said 173k. Their reply is where I nearly fell over.. "oh youve had a good run".... "the rest of them fail at about 120k!!!!!" They went on to tell me the Inline filter gorse blocks solid at about 120k and as far as they are aware Ford dont have aservice interval for this gorse.... all of this I was pretty suprised to hear (and in my mind I was saying if only I had known!!) Anyway I ordered a new Turbo from them to be here the following morning... In the mean time I set out to find this gorse and throw it as far as I could! I also wanted to see for myself and confirm it was oil supply that caused my turbo failure... I removed the turbo feed line from the turbo charger itself. I bent it up lightly and had it pointed into a 10 litre bucket (I wanted plenty of capacity in the bucket incase our theories were wrong should copious amounts of oil come out the pipe at engine oil pressure! Nice mess!). Anyway after some 30 seconds of idling not a single drop of oil came out of the turbo feed line. Ill also mention the turbo charger was not turing a rev during this test. I was DEAD! When I followed the feed line back around to the other side of the block and saw where the junction of sensor and bajo joiners were, I did remove the air box and oilfilter to try and gain better access to the area.. (it would be a different story if I was attempting this with the car raised or on a hoist). But yes its a bitch to get to eitherway. Removal of the junctions and connectors I found the TINY TINY gourse tucked away with a circlip each end. The most suprising thing was the size of it! and the fact it had very little capacity! It was blocked solid! As fast as that it went over my shoulder never to be seen again! I couldnt help think if only ford had located the oil presure sensor in a different spot in relation to the Gorse and the oil light came on should the gorse ever block up! On inspection of the line itself it was clean.Clean as a whistle. The Castrol Edge 10 60 oil id been running since the car was 1500km old (changing every 10,000km) always appeared to come out clean on each oil change and it was. The line though being clean didnt have any oily appearance at all. It looked as if it had been dry of oil for.. I hate to say it.. months! It was perhaps the high quality ( and expensive) oil that bought me the extra 53,000km prior to failure compared to the average km the garret dealer indicated?? I ordered an External braided inline filter Kit. This I fitted with the new turbo. Now running again, (after I changed the oil & Oil filter for peice of mind and replaced the original spark plugs(!!!) to the already gapped NGK BKR6EIX) I had the car placed back on the rollers (the same one it always had been on) and all my engine health concerns were put to rest.. the ol donk still realled off the same power it ever did (over 400rwhp) on the same boost it always had... FweeewH! God love the inline Ford 6! As mentioned in one of the above posts, I too didnt like the appearance of braided inline filter kit. Having to zip tie it to one of the turbo water lines just doesnt look neat enough for me also. So I pulled out the original steel feed line. I refitted it but in the process fitted the same inline -6 filter to it used in the braide kit, with some speedflow fitings flared in. Its now located just beind the power steering pump and almost looks factory.. I have a 2010 FG Xr6T auto on order (due in Feb-March). Guess whats the first thing ill be doing to it! (PS can one get banned for dribbling on too long on his first ever post? ;-))
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