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Ralph Wiggum

Diy Tuning

563 posts in this topic

Gents,

Lets make this thread productive and keep it on topic.

Please discuss you tuning endeavors and equipment/techniques used, also anybody interested in tuning their own car this is the place to ask.

This thread is for DIY tuners, Forum Advertisers are welcome to offer there assistance if they wish to do so.

KGO!

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Ok lets start off with a list of H/W needed and price (if you have it).

- VCM suite + 2 credits

- Data logger (xcal2) $200

- Knockbox $295 5qty min

anything else? ratter don't say dyno lol

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Wide Band Air Fuel Ratio measuring equipment. $279 to $10000

Edit: :rolleyes:

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Posted (edited)

Just wondering if you could screw the wideband injust after the cat, would this be better than sticking into the tailpipe?

Also could someone please list the common terminology and what it means an why it's important.

AFR

Lambda

Injector scaling

Injector duty cycle

Timing advance/retard

Intake temp

Detonation

Waste gate duty cycle

MAP

Load

Etc...etc (keep going)

Edited by Paulie2256

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Yeah you can do that and put a gauge in the car , or just a bung in the exhaust and screw it in when required

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I am surprised that no one has done a tuning guide for VCM suite. I have seen guides for GM vehicles but no one so far has done a step by step guide for the tables to look at and adjust in VCM.

The best place to put a wideband is on the turbo dump. Best just to weld in an extra bung. Using the tailpipe is not the best way as it does take time for the exhaust to get to the rear and it does not give a good reading at idle. If you datalog the data does not closely match RPM/Load when it is in the tailpipe. Tuners who use still use the tailpipe should be shot.

Innovate have good wideband sensors and logging software.

If you are a novice just forget the timing advance maps. If using stock maps any knock detection is not needed.

You might need a SCT handheld tuner to datalog the Wideband along side RPM and MAP. It will give the best chance of knowing where you are in the tune. But I reckon you could get an inovate to get valid datalogging data also.

I want to get rid of the Nizpro injectors in my car which was tuned with a SCT so I need to start getting familiar with the VCM software. I have alot of tuning experience so I can help there (that's easy) but I need help with the VCM software.

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Im personally interested in tuning, but it is difficult to get info. I actually think that there is an opportunity to have an all vehicle Australian based forum, as the necessary tools for in car tuning are well within reach from a cost perspective. Great thread Ralphie.

Cheers

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I am surprised that no one has done a tuning guide for VCM suite. I have seen guides for GM vehicles but no one so far has done a step by step guide for the tables to look at and adjust in VCM.

The best place to put a wideband is on the turbo dump. Best just to weld in an extra bung. Using the tailpipe is not the best way as it does take time for the exhaust to get to the rear and it does not give a good reading at idle. If you datalog the data does not closely match RPM/Load when it is in the tailpipe. Tuners who use still use the tailpipe should be shot.

Innovate have good wideband sensors and logging software.

If you are a novice just forget the timing advance maps. If using stock maps any knock detection is not needed.

You might need a SCT handheld tuner to datalog the Wideband along side RPM and MAP. It will give the best chance of knowing where you are in the tune. But I reckon you could get an inovate to get valid datalogging data also.

I want to get rid of the Nizpro injectors in my car which was tuned with a SCT so I need to start getting familiar with the VCM software. I have alot of tuning experience so I can help there (that's easy) but I need help with the VCM software.

What injectors were you thinking of using?

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I am surprised that no one has done a tuning guide for VCM suite. I have seen guides for GM vehicles but no one so far has done a step by step guide for the tables to look at and adjust in VCM.

The best place to put a wideband is on the turbo dump. Best just to weld in an extra bung. Using the tailpipe is not the best way as it does take time for the exhaust to get to the rear and it does not give a good reading at idle. If you datalog the data does not closely match RPM/Load when it is in the tailpipe. Tuners who use still use the tailpipe should be shot.

Innovate have good wideband sensors and logging software.

If you are a novice just forget the timing advance maps. If using stock maps any knock detection is not needed.

You might need a SCT handheld tuner to datalog the Wideband along side RPM and MAP. It will give the best chance of knowing where you are in the tune. But I reckon you could get an inovate to get valid datalogging data also.

I want to get rid of the Nizpro injectors in my car which was tuned with a SCT so I need to start getting familiar with the VCM software. I have alot of tuning experience so I can help there (that's easy) but I need help with the VCM software.

Demo:

http://www.hptuners.com/index.php

Also I wouldn't be relying on fords timing table if you plan to increase boost above standard. Especially in a b series

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Posted (edited)

I have some Ford Racing/Bosch G302/0280158117 EV14s. They are a 8 hole injector and will flow 60lb (635cc) at 4 bar. There is a calibration table that comes with this particular injector that should assist tuning.

I bought my FG modified (something I swear I would never do as I have always modified my own cars) but it was done professionally by a workshop with all good bits for free basically but I just dont like the Nizpro drilled injectors. THey have sh*tty behaviours which the G302s should rectify and still give me the 365kw it has now.

Thanks for the Demo link also.

Edited by turbotrana

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I ran 4.5 bar with those injectors when I tested them at roughly that power, but my mixtures are fairly fat. What is your actual lambda and boost at the redline, I'll tell you roughly what duty cycle you will be at. If you need a bit more flow and have spare pump capacity you can have this reg, it's a drop in replacement and is blueprinted to 4.5. Tuning wise you just need to adjust all injector scaling tables to suit. Very basic task.

In regards to the Nizpro squirters, have a look at the calibration and I bet your injector offset table is factory, you breakpoint is quite low (under 0.000017 lb per stroke) and your injector slopes are on the pi$$. I.e the high slope is higher than the low slope. I'm not at all a fan of drilled injectors but I found the nizpro items to work ok, apart from them being thirsty, obviously atomize poorly.

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Ill love to know how to tune but I dont understand anything in here

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Posted (edited)

Where Standard vs. Pro differ is the Pro version offers stand-alone data logging that allows you to scan the car without hauling a computer along with you. The Pro version also accepts 0-5V inputs so that you can log air fuel ratio (or other information) along with your OBD2 parameters. With that said, I would seriously consider the MPVI Pro if you have (or are planning) any sort of modifications to the vehicle(s) you will be tuning as this will allow you to data log your Air Fuel Ratio etc. and display it right along with the parameters logged with HP Tuners Scanner. This eliminates the need to analyze data from a separate software system, or worse yet, write down the AFR at certain RPM and load points. Otherwise, if you will not be modifying the vehicle, the Standard will be more than sufficient.

Does that mean I can get the pro version and connect and wideband o2 sensor directly without the need of another logger? That would be neat.

Edited by Paulie2256

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Does that mean I can get the pro version and connect and wideband o2 sensor directly without the need of another logger? That would be neat.

Certainly appears to be the case Paulie. Cheap as chips too. Cheers

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Might as well get an LM-2. Does the same thing but much easier to use and a neater mobile unit. You can also wire it into the xcal. My LM-2 analog cable has outputs for the xcal2 (mini din), xcal3 (FireWire) and a generic for aftermarket ECU's that I tinker with. As long as the ground offsets are configured correctly its a weapon combo.

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So the livelink software is better for logging than the vcm? Is that why you guys have xcal2? log with that and make changes in vcm?

The LM-2 is pretty exy.

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Does that mean I can get the pro version and connect and wideband o2 sensor directly without the need of another logger? That would be neat.

I have my MVPI setup to log wideband afr and fuel pressure at the moment. you can log and 5v analog source.

An X-cal2 is essential though as it give you access to all the Ford DMR's not just the standard PID's like the MVPI. You can tune just fine with the MVPI on its own but you will be playing some guessing games because you can't see what the X-cal 2 can.

Might as well get an LM-2. Does the same thing but much easier to use and a neater mobile unit. You can also wire it into the xcal. My LM-2 analog cable has outputs for the xcal2 (mini din), xcal3 (FireWire) and a generic for aftermarket ECU's that I tinker with. As long as the ground offsets are configured correctly its a weapon combo.

WHS^

Also if you guys haven't worked it out by now, you really need a desire to learn and the funds to purchase all the gear you need to do it properly. I think If i added up all the gear I've got it would have happily paid for several X-cal's and custom tunes to go with them!

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Posted (edited)

Yeah it's not a cheap exercise but I'm definitely still keen. Will probably start logging a lot of stuff with the xcal first to see what is happening before buying extra HW.

Also, can VCM read a tune done with SCT? I suspect the parameters on the PCM can be read but you won't see all of them since SCT has access to more tables... is that right?

Edited by Paulie2256

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the advice Toady. When I get my head around HP Tuners a bit more I will look into that stuff.

I had a look at the Demo HPTuner software tonight but there are only GM tune files from what I could see so not much use in getting an idea on the Australian Ford stuff.

Just some Questions:

Where is the best place to buy HpTuner in Aust and how much. I guess it comes with cables and everthing needed to connect to the car?

Also when the ZF transmission tuning side gets done will I have to pay extra or is that an automatic free software update?

I have a SCT tune in the car. Should I download the stock tune down into the car and tune that with VCM or can I suck the SCT tune out and use that as a base tune and then tune with the HpTuner software??

What is preventing a few mates buying HpTuners with credits and tuning several cars.

Edited by turbotrana

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Posted (edited)

Also when the ZF transmission tuning side gets done will I have to pay extra or is that an automatic free software update?

I have a SCT tune in the car. Should I download the stock tune down into the car and tune that with VCM or can I suck the SCT tune out and use that as a base tune and then tune with the HpTuner software??

What is preventing a few mates buying HpTuners with credits and tuning several cars.

Software updates appear to be fee for life however I reckon the zf tuning will be worth another 2 credits.

I want to know this too, no one has responded. The best way for me to learn (if a mentor is not available) is to compare a stock tune with tuned.

I don't think anything is.

This thread has the potential to turn into a whole new forum on this site which I think would be awesome however it depends how keen the guys are to pass their knowledge on.

Edited by Paulie2256

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