Monday motorsport report

May 14, 2007

Ford flags V8 Supercar belt-tightening

For the second time in as many months, Ford is making ominous noises about its V8 Supercar racing budget.

Ford's Australian president, Tom Gorman, says the company's greater emphasis on more compact, fuel-efficient imported cars could threaten its investment in Falcon V8 Supercars.

"We used to be the ?Falcon Car Company' and now we're not -- we're expanding the franchise," Gorman told journalists at his regular monthly face-to-face last week.

Gorman says he is constantly querying Ford's spending on its race teams and believes there may not be as much passion for V8 racing in the future and that he's now pushing alternative nameplates such as the new Mondeo and the smaller Focus and Fiesta models.

"V8's has a very direct correlation -- because you really do buy the car? I think there's a role for racing to create passion in the automotive industry but there won't be as direct a correlation as there is today

"We'll always be in racing, but we have to be more strategic about how we use it," Gorman says.

He also warned that V8 Supercar needs to continue its focus on cost containment and says it should limit its offshore races to New Zealand. Amazingly Gorman also told the media that the V8 Supercar promoter did not see Ford Australia as "a key constituent."

V8 supercar should be careful of biting the hand that feeds it and concentrate on generating excitement for what Gorman termed a uniquely Australian sport, he said.

When the head of one of the two participating car companies in V8 Supercar racing speaks, you have to listen. And, when he speaks in this vein twice in two months, you have to listen twice as clearly. Gorman is trying to tell someone something.

V8 Supercar has been very successful in taking Australian touring car racing to new levels in the past decade, but (despite some desperate attempts at hype in the past five years) there is little prospect of Toyota entering the fray, and even less of Mitsubishi doing so.

If Gorman's words aren't heeded, there may come a time (as some smart alec suggested elsewhere in the past day or so) that V8 Supercar racing becomes Formula Holden. And that can't be what anyone wants. Even Holden?

Isn't it already???

Could be concerning times ahead, perhaps they may even have to shift back to production racing!

Why don't they just come out and say it as it is.

Ford is sick of being dictated by gmh's brown nose antic's to Tega/Avesco & cams of being allowed to do as they please outside the rules in the V8 supercars.

Everyone including the non HRT HSV holden race teams know what is going on.
As I have said in other posts what is the point of Ford competing if the rules are allowed to be dictated by HRT & HSV teams.
Hell it's a wonder that they arn't able to fit blowers to there cars, or maybe they have already.

Maybe Ford have read many a Forum and found that there is a lot of unhappy Ford loyalist who have turned there backs on the sport because of the unfair rulings and one rule for Ford and another for hrt / hsv.

gmh can't make or build a car that can truely out perform the Ford product so they have to stoop to dictating the sport by using illegal componants and tactics and have there drivers punt leading position Ford drivers off the track so they can actually win a race/championship.

"If you can't win punt them off"
"If you can't win cheat till you do"

These should be there long life moto's.

Ford should start up a Comp all of there own with the likes of all the performance range competing against each other.

The different models all have there advantage's so would provide some very interesting racing especially with the new Focus I have been told is happening soon with all wheel drive.

Maybe even focus there racing and promoting with production class racing the way it should have stayed.
This would help with sales a lot more as it is what we buy and drive.
If you seen say a XR6Turbo do well on the track and you where looking for a new car it would help make your decision better than seeing a exotic parts tin shell win.

hrt/hsv thankyou for Fords new step forward into the future.

maybe Ford should find a way to bend the rules too, or maybe Holden is just doin a better job, Ford results over the last few years have been the best in ages, why look for the devil in supercar racing, its a sport ffs, you have your ups and downs

Its ok to loose to a better product, but how would you like to spend billions in a sport to be competitive only to have your main opposition be allowed to go above the rules to have the advantage with there inferior product.

How many people in the general public know what is actually going on beyound pit lane and are under the impression that gmh have the better product.

Just look at all the vt - vz gen3 crummies bad oiling problems, poor machining tolerences, can't rebore engine blocks, powersteering oils leaks & fires etc etc hell they can't even make a petrol flap that stays attached.
The governing bodies even allowed gmh race teams to move the chassis rails inwards to allow the required rubber to fit, great engineering. Also didn't it have 21 recalls in a 9 year period.
And how many people out there think there crummy is the ducks guts due to the v8 supercar wins.

Even the poor dud AU is a way better engineered car with way less problems but because of the aero advantage's allowed to the crummy by the governing bodies the AU looked like a inferior car.
This hurt Ford with sales.

Where mentioned why don't Ford do the same, well look what happened when Ambrose had a useless loose wire coming from his EM & his lack of wearing a Balacrava.
Hell Murph puts Ambrose into the wall and that is deemed ok but not wearing a Balacrava, go figure.
Ford can't even scratch their arse without the governing bodies slapping penalities or fines on them.

hrt/hsv work as a 4 car team, can't prove ownership rights and pays there way out of it with no penalities at all.

All I can say is Ford you are doing the right thing in moving away from the v8 supercar series as these biased rules have hampered Ford for to many years from displaying the true engineering quality of it's products.

V8 racing has failed to hurt sales for a long time, IMO....rising fuel prices, i could agree with, people dont use the "win on sunday" ideals anymore, without fleet sales, commodore and falcon cease to exist, what V8's are now is a simple blue oval vs the lion fan spectacle.....

the fact is, 4200 people here dont give a rats who wins on sunday, they have made their choice, and if it was that important, we'd all be in xr8's and a lot slower

its a sport, and its competitive, if you want exact same cars with exact same power, without the opportunity to have a winning edge/advantage, bring back the mirage cup!!

at the moment, Toll/HSV are the team to beat, surely you dont foget that Stone Brothers were in the same position a few years ago....were you upset then, my bet is NO.

competition is healthy, blatant crying over spilt milk is

and if Ford does pull the pin, they are hurting themselves, and Holden will not have caused their demise, anyone remember the scraping of the V8???

Why does crummy out sell the Falcon then if it's not v8 supercar related.

Can't you see that toss/hrt have the rules to suit them and dictate the championship.

I think you need to open your eye's a bit on what is actually going on with the sport.

And I wouldn't care if the crummies won every race as long as it was by the rules.

Stone Brothers dominated because they had a fantasic driver, this same driver finished the AU in 3rd place in it's last championship which you have to hand to him since he did it with a car that had like 40+ kg less frontal downforce due to the shorter undertray than what the crummies where allowed to use. I would say even if Ambrose was still racing here he would be struggling to keep pace with the toss/hrt cars.

So I suppose toss/hrt are really that much better than 888 even though it was Lowndes championship last year until p rick kelly ended that.

Didn't 888 have more wins than toss or hrt last years championship?

Where are they this year have they gone backwards in there performance or is it that the new ve is a much better race car than the falcon.
If thats the case why is it only toss/hrt in the top 10 most of the time and the rest of the top 10 is filled out with the fords.

Wake up hrt/toss have been found breaching the rules and allowed to get away with it by making a finanial agreement (bribe I would call it).

This is the only reason why they are the teams at the front.

And as you say there are majority of people on here that have made there mind up on there make of car and don't care who wins .
This is not the issue it's about Ford moving away from the v8 supercars.
And I was only stating my thought's on why they are doing so.

ive re-thought this one....if it upsets you so much 01txr, you can always watch lawn bowls on the ABC.....

I get the impression he's a bit passionate about this subject

shhhh.... the FBI are monitoring this thread

Hey guys, I'm with 01txr, Holden just bend the rules to get good results in V8 Supercars and Ford just cops all the slack. A classic example of this was the last race of last years season, when clearly you could see Tander blocking and slowing down to try and stop Lowndes from passing, so his team mate Kelly could get away. Next thing you know Tander got a penalty for illegal blocking (Which he rightfully deserved, mind you they probably should have been disqualified for it), so that caused Lowndes to pass and since the Toll HSV team and Kelly new that Lowndes had the speed advantage compared to Kelly, he took Lowndes car out, so he could win the race. I know most people and even Holden fans despised this action and clearly new who had won the race, not Kelly, but Lowndes. I think Kelly should have been disqualified for this action and shouldn't have been able to win the championship. I reckon the chanpionship win last year should have gone to Wincup, since he was 3rd on the championship ladder, that way both parties would have been happy.

The end of last years season was an absaloute regret for me, as this was not racing, but clear revenge and selfishness. I can tell you now is that way Brock would have wanted it, I think not and I am sure most people agree with me, but once again Holden seems to shift and twist the rules around to making themselves look good.

Anyway thats my opinion, but I am sure most of you would agree with me on last years results.
Cheers
Prim

its NOT a bloody conspiracy......

the 2006 season is over.....

we should all move on......

i think the arguement that Holden has an unfair advantage, as stated by 01txr, was also discredited by 01txr when he said Lowndes won more races last year.....

we didnt win the championship, if Ford spends its time whining over last years mess in the final round, we wont win this year....

bathurst has always been the benchmark race of the season....Ford rarely get beaten by faster Holdens, Ford gets beaten by inferior reliability.....how many times have we been in the lead, to only break something mid-race, i guess thats Holdens fault as well.....

why make ourselves sound like a bunch of sooks......

support the blue oval till the end, isnt that what a true supporter does??

makes winning sweeter when it comes thru adversity IMO

The FBI must have gone undercover though.....

http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/index.php?showuser=11072

Last active 25 Feb

at least now i can really voice my opinion on this........

by the time FBI comes back, i'll be long gone, muhahaha

Whats this stuff I have heard about that the ve has been cut and shut having 93mm taken out of it which apparently is suppose to give them better weight balance with better turn in.
Also I have heard that they have also taken the height out of the roof as well to give it a better aero shape.

I though you had to leave the body/shell as per same as it came from factory.

How come they are allowed to do this, maybe another financial agreement.

The other knight I was catching up on some reading of my collection of AUSTRALIAN MUSCLE CAR issue 30
reading about how Ford withdrew the XD racecar as they where under the impression that gmh was going to bend the rules to suit there new crummy.
So it seems gmh have been dictating the sport for a long time.
It was good though to see Wayne Draper (Ford Design person) go behind Fords back and built the XD race car, he gave Cams the weight for the lightest falcon (taxi ?) which was a rare thing to get one over gmh.
This Wayne Draper risked he career to keep Ford in the sport as if they had found out what he was doing he would have been fired on the spot.


And yes Iam passionate about Ford getting screwed over by gmh all the time with there cheating ways.


So name how many times Ford have failed to finish due to vehicle failure's.

I suppose you call Longhurst getting taken out by a back running crummy with a few laps from the finish a vehicle failure?
Funny how that kept all footage of the incidence quite.


Wake up and smell the truth of what goes on.

Ford have been disadvantaged by the rules and parity for years with gmh dictating the whole show.

Sorry Laner, but you obviously haven't been following the sport, or the subsequent swing to Holden in sales.

To deny the ovious rule advantages HRT/HSV have been afforded over the years is just plain ignorance. The fact Ford has managed some sucess is just testimate to who really produces the best race package. Don't forget that Ford didn't have any sucess until the AU aero dissadvantage was corrected. Right now, because of this silly project blueprint rule, the cars are almost all the same, however, there are 4 cars out there allowed twice the amount of testing as everyone else, and it shows in the results. The only real differences in the cars now is set-up, therefore, the extra testing is a massive advantage.

Don't you think it strange that the very four cars involved in the ownership scandal, just so happen the be dominating the series, and the only 4 Holdens in the top 12!??

Do you also fail to see that since the formation of the V8 series there have been continual rule advantages for the Holdens, that Holden's racing sucess since the V8 series has been directly in line with their market sucess (even with inferior products).

I've said for a while now that Ford would be far more sensible pulling their funding out of the V8 circus and go to a series that is fair. Something like a properly governed production series where all of the companies can compete with all of their products. It has a much wider appeal. It will also mean that our local manufacturers will be putting real engineering into their products so that they can compete. If Holden then wins, good, as long as it is fair.

And before you say production cars won't be as popular, the only reason V8 Supercircus is so popular is because of the promoting and marketing. Do the same for any other series and the results will be seen.

Oh no...another one

Somebody call Mulder we need to get to the bottom of this.....

Mach 16 2007

>> Ford man clarifies racing attitude
Ford motorsport manager Ray Price has been quick this week to add some perspective to the company's Australian boss Tom Gorman's latest remarks that could have been interpreted, at the extreme, to mean that the Blue Oval was contemplating a pull-out from V8 Supercar racing.

Price says Gorman's remarks are an indication that the company will review how it spends its motorsport budget, rather than it not having a budget to spend.

Price says the development of a racing version of the new model Falcon to be released next year should be seen as a sign that Ford isn't intending to withdraw from racing.

"Our commitment is rock solid," Price has told Auto Action. "If there were ever a time that we would doubt our involvement it is now ? and that isn't happening.

"We're going through a changing time in the automotive industry, but that doesn't mean we can just stop our participation in motorsport. What we need to do is some adjustment (of spending) ? and the adjustment will be the part that we look at."

This is useless tmac450 it's like trying to tell a 2 year old how to do his shoe lace up.

So has anyone got anyting on how the ve has been cut and shut to make it a better handling car than what it should based on the production chassis platform.

Imagine if Ford cut and shut the Falcon to make it a better handling car.
Do you think the governing bodies would allow Ford to do like wise? Don't think so.


True supporter would not turn a blind eye to hrt/toss racing tactics to being a race winner.

Motorsport is orsm but if your opponent is allowed to dictate the rules to suit there team and cars it destroys the whole thing, and once the unknown public become aware of it they to also lose interest in it as well.

gmh is destroying a good show.

And as tmac450 said if production was promoted as well it would more than likely do better as if you remember where it all started from and how the big f500 cars with all there power and speed loss out to production car racing as it did not relate as well to the pulic.

I wouldn't mind betting if production cars where promoted it may do the same.
It would be a lot cheaper to run for teams as well.
Just look at DJR at present I think they are in the process of selling out to a f3 pommy team.

I agree with the sentiment of your posts buddy, but what's the point getting worked up about it?

Can appreciate your passion but venting in here won't change anything. For most (myself included) it's just easier to accept things the way they are and get on with life.

It still is an entertaining series to watch IMHO regardless of all the political crap that goes on behind the scenes.

ok, ok, i give in........






we should all be grown up men, learn to tie our shoelaces, not disagree with anyone...

AND SPIT THE DUMMY WHENEVER OUR SIDE LOSES!!!!!

i'm taking my bat and ball, and i'm leaving this thread to the whingers

Unfortunatly, keeping it to ourselves is exactly what has let it get out of hand in the first place.

Yep Holden sure do dominate this years season, at the moment and what really catches my eye is how the Toll HSV cars seem to be the only holdens winning races and speeding ahead of the pack. I really think there is something different about those cars, not just different setup, but some kind of unfair advantage, cause not even the other VE's can keep up with them (sounds a bit fishy to me). Anyway its probably something that will be realised by the governing bodies at the end of the season, when its to late, like usual.

Ford really cops alot of slack from holden and despite the unfair advantages, I give them recognition for hanging in there and keeping the fans happy.

Cheers
Prim

Not getting worked up, don't really care if you want to be blind to the facts.

I have with many others expressed my feelings with gmh's tactics for years even while we where winning.

Have you guys even read anything on here and found evidence of what both me and tmac450 have been trying to get accross.

The ignorance of people is the problem why gmh/hrt/toss get away with dictating the rules along with the available info that is given out. (yes I know there is a lot of secrets in motorsport but letting gmh cheat is wrong)
If Ford and the Ford race teams made a stand things would be made a lot more even on the track.
Along with fan support, not loyal fans turning a blind eye.

If you call yourselfs loyal supporters to Ford than along with other Ford owners should stand up for the brand and not allow gmh to dictate the sport.
I feel this is the best place to start as it's a Ford site and if people joined together things happen.

I have found people that useually don't agree with whats being written are those x gmh owners that have turned to Ford due to this orsm Turbo Ford with it's easy power upgrades being available, but once gmh makes a better car (If they could make a fuel flap that doesn't fall off first ) they will bag the crap out of the turbo Falcon.

Is this where you tab and laner come from?

Gee I used my first emoticon, that still doesn't mean I am getting emotional over this subject.

i know i said i was leaving this thread, BUT......


i can finally say it, 01txr, your wrong....always been a FORD fan, my mothers maiden name is FORD ffs.....


the fact is, we arent winning, my logic says thats f*cked, it also says, whining on the internet wont make a single difference.

as Tab hinted before, suck it up and move on, its only a sport, there's bigger things to waste your time crying about

Please keep personal comments out of this.
Personally I have given up watching the racing as it is boring now.
I would rather watch speedweek and see some real racing. GT Production, Sports Sedans & Future racers are more interesting and fairer than the V8Holdencars racing series.
Yes I am disgusted by CAMS/TEGA/AVESCO in the way this series has been run and believe they should go back to Group C rules.
This would mean we would get more variety of cars and they would be worked with big tyres and aero.

As for bitching about how unfair the current series is, Tell someone who will do something about it.

My sincere apologies for calling you a mother*beep* 01txr, apparently that's offensive

Nobody insinuates I'm a holden lover and gets away with it though

I still watch,but without becoming emotional about it.I guess I'll watch any form of motor racing if its available.I do agree with you though, in everthing else you've said.

damn cheating holdens again.....

FORD 1, 2, 3!!!!!

Somebody musta got through.....

"the truth is out there"

TEGA have seen this thread and fixed the round to appease the Ford fans...but they don’t fool us with their cunning antics do they???

But then the cynics wouldn't know what happened seeing as they don't watch the sh|t anymore!!!

No didn't watch but heard that ford only won because the hrt/toss cars fell of the track and prior to them doing so where doing it easy with a good gap between the nearest ford you know holden holden daylight oh then comes a ford.

Anyway had more fun out cruising with the XR6 XR8 Club of QLD rather than sitting on my but watching v8 superholden championship..

Heard Winterbottom was going well till someone took him out, this guy I feel will be Fords next muliply championship winner if the rules are made even and hrt/toss stop getting there way with there dictatorship of the event.

And congrats to Wincup for getting the slow ford to the first win of the season even though it was because the faster ve fell of the track, good work and lets pray for rain at every round from here on as since we have had a dry period for so long hrt/toss must not have the shared data to help them in the wet conditions hence falling off the track.

Also heard something about the fords getting more downforce to the rear to equalise it up a bit maybe this was the needed fix they needed. ford get to increase to 100kg downforce to gmh's pettiful 150kg downforce.
hrt/toss will be whinging now saying for the governing body to have the fords remove there rear wing altogether in the wet as the ford doesn't fall off the track like the gmh cars.


God why am I bothering as I don't watch the anymore.

Seeya no more bites from me, not worth wasting my time talking to people who are not in the know or just like having gmh give it to them up the rear.

No idea...but you're quite entertaining

oh, and on topic, Whincup wins the round.......

What's entertaining about that....

Why must you be logical?

logical, yes....


funny as, yes....


if only i saw this thread like that from the start i could've saved myself, nah f*ck it, it was worth it

While this thread is a bit entertaining i have to agree with both sides one some things. On one side yes it seems to be very biased towards holden there is not really much point whinging about it as it has been that way since the day it was created. I mean look at when they took some front splitter off the fords only 2 or so weeks before the biggest race of the year, Bathurst for gods sake so if that in itself is not a showing of a one sided affair what is? Anyway watching today my girlfriend said to me (who by the way is a Todd kelly fan) said this is starting to get boring, cause she is sick of seeing tander, R Kelly and the like always at the front. Behind those two the racing is quite interesting.

One point i would like to make is watching the racing today did anyone else notice how well Tanders car put the power down both at the start and during slippery conditions? Or was it just me?

its all a conspiracy..

even ford cars are sporting red paint now


so if its formula holden

how about production ford

Turbos vs v8's

Now your talking, that would be orsm.

it was good to watch the 8's vs the 6t's at Morgan Park a few weeks ago at Warrick with the XR6 & XR8 club of QLD.

And even more fum once my t56 goes in my T and I can join the fun.

What ya got in it at the moment?

You mean to tell me you didn't hear it on the cruise.
It's a super tuff T5 (v8 supercar sounding gearbox, whinging big time)
The differance being the hollinger is built to sound that way.
Alot of people have been asking if it is supercharged as sounds like a 671.
They just don't like 300rwkw's.

Once I fit box and do the rods and pistons yeh ha I will see what it can make.
Real worried about traction though.

Sorry for going off topic.

Never heard it as you were broken-down the only time I saw your car

When's it going in?

You came up when my brothers car popped its heater tap.

Mine has never broken down.

The hold up with mine was when I turned the rear tyre's heading up towards the cedar creek falls turn off, I must of picked up something sharpe as it peeled a 30-40cm x 5mm strip from tyre and I had to stop to cut it off.

Then we took a wrong turn before finding everyone.

It may not be going in as debating weather to do myself as will have to do out on the road as my garage is chock full. Unless someone has access to a shed and a hoist would be nice.

Or if someone can reckonmend me to a trustworthy mech who doesn't want to charge me a weeks wage for a max 2hr job to remove and fit it.